7 ms·

I just honestly don't understand what the issue is with NATO bombing of Yugoslavia and why Russians in particular are so butthurt about it. During some of the w

by mopsi 2y ago

I just honestly don't understand what the issue is with NATO bombing of Yugoslavia and why Russians in particular are so butthurt about it. During some of the worst massacres in Yugoslavia, more people were murdered in the span of a few days than died during the entire aerial campaign. The campaign put a decisive end to wars, and the following decades have brought massive success. Former parts of Yugoslavia like Croatia are now advanced high-income countries. We see passive-aggressive hints about NATO bombing of Yugoslavia on HN all the time, but rarely anyone explains where that comes from. I can understand why Serbians could be bitter - the campaign had several horrible incidents like the passenger train that got hit during a strike on a railway bridge - but why are Russians complaining more than anyone else about a thing that happened 25 years ago, thousands of miles away, to people they have no relation with? I'd really like to get an answer to that.

racional 2y ago
I think Dan's point is that there's never a need to introduce references to a commenter's nationality or other presumed essential traits. No matter how self-evidently full of excrement their droppings here may be.
- protomolecule 2y ago
  "I think Dan's point is that there's never a need to introduce references to a commenter's nationality or other presumed essential traits. No matter how self-evidently full of excrement their droppings here may be." @dang So how comments like this fit the site's guidelines? Btw, that's another account "using HN primarily for political and nationalistic battle".
  - racional 2y ago
    There's nothing political or nationalistic at all in my comment. My posts refer mostly to historical events, and attempt to correct the various (sometime rather bizarre) cognitive distortions that some people like to hold and promote about them. Along with many much milder and more innocuous misunderstandings. Personally I eschew all forms of nationalism and nationalist rhetoric.
- dang 2y ago
  > No matter how self-evidently full of excrement their droppings here may be. With this you do exactly what we're asking commenters to avoid doing on HN. It's not as bad as if you were hurling the insult directly at someone, but it's not so different either—as the reply you got demonstrated. The issue isn't that we shouldn't reference each other's nationality—it's that we should be open, curious and respectful with each other, most of all when it comes to divisive topics. When people start talking about other people's countries scornfully or aggressively or snarkily, that's when it becomes flamebait and a moderation issue. In addition to the above: having just taken a look at your commenting history, it's clear that you've been using HN primarily for political and nationalistic battle. Just as I said to the other users, that's not allowed on HN and we ban accounts that do it, regardless of which side you're battling for or against. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on, we'd appreciate it.
  - racional 2y ago
    When people start talking about other people's countries scornfully or aggressively or snarkily, that's when it becomes flamebait and a moderation issue. Can you point to even a single instance where I have done this, please? Meaning -- in reference to the country or its people per se (as opposed to the actions or ideology of the people who happen to be running it; or perhaps entirely reasonable references to what a measured portion of the population might say or think, as can be easily verified by numerous news reports)? If not -- then why are you setting forth the implication that this is something I have done? And lasties -- a lot of postings here (or excerpts from them) are plainly BS. Whether the poster is simply naive, or has less charitable motivations -- there's simply no mistaking it. I totally get that labeling these cases as such continuously makes for bad reading; and of course one should never to so spuriously. But what is so wrong or uncivil (or even "snarky") about pointing out this simple fact, in egregious cases when there's just no ifs, buts or mitigating factors about it? Or is just the fecal labeling? Would you prefer we stick to more G-rated terminology like "nonsense" and "balderdash"? I suppose I could live with that.
    - 2y ago
dang 2y ago
> why $nation in particular are so butthurt about it With this you did again exactly what I just asked you to stop doing. That's not cool. The historical details you're bringing up are irrelevant to whether you're breaking HN's rules or not—for moderation purposes none of that matters. What matters is that making provocative, pejorative, or scornful references to other countries or their people is nationalistic flamebait which leads to hellthreads, which we don't want on HN. I don't think this is at all hard to understand, so no more of this please. In addition to the above: having just taken a look at your commenting history, it's clear that you've been using HN primarily for political and nationalistic battle. Just as I said to the other user, that's not allowed on HN and we ban accounts that do it, regardless of which side you're battling for or against. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on, we'd appreciate it.

by mopsi 2y ago

racional 2y ago

I think Dan's point is that there's never a need to introduce references to a commenter's nationality or other presumed essential traits. No matter how self-evidently full of excrement their droppings here may be.

protomolecule 2y ago
"I think Dan's point is that there's never a need to introduce references to a commenter's nationality or other presumed essential traits. No matter how self-evidently full of excrement their droppings here may be." @dang So how comments like this fit the site's guidelines? Btw, that's another account "using HN primarily for political and nationalistic battle".
- racional 2y ago
  There's nothing political or nationalistic at all in my comment. My posts refer mostly to historical events, and attempt to correct the various (sometime rather bizarre) cognitive distortions that some people like to hold and promote about them. Along with many much milder and more innocuous misunderstandings. Personally I eschew all forms of nationalism and nationalist rhetoric.
dang 2y ago
> No matter how self-evidently full of excrement their droppings here may be. With this you do exactly what we're asking commenters to avoid doing on HN. It's not as bad as if you were hurling the insult directly at someone, but it's not so different either—as the reply you got demonstrated. The issue isn't that we shouldn't reference each other's nationality—it's that we should be open, curious and respectful with each other, most of all when it comes to divisive topics. When people start talking about other people's countries scornfully or aggressively or snarkily, that's when it becomes flamebait and a moderation issue. In addition to the above: having just taken a look at your commenting history, it's clear that you've been using HN primarily for political and nationalistic battle. Just as I said to the other users, that's not allowed on HN and we ban accounts that do it, regardless of which side you're battling for or against. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on, we'd appreciate it.
- racional 2y ago
  When people start talking about other people's countries scornfully or aggressively or snarkily, that's when it becomes flamebait and a moderation issue. Can you point to even a single instance where I have done this, please? Meaning -- in reference to the country or its people per se (as opposed to the actions or ideology of the people who happen to be running it; or perhaps entirely reasonable references to what a measured portion of the population might say or think, as can be easily verified by numerous news reports)? If not -- then why are you setting forth the implication that this is something I have done? And lasties -- a lot of postings here (or excerpts from them) are plainly BS. Whether the poster is simply naive, or has less charitable motivations -- there's simply no mistaking it. I totally get that labeling these cases as such continuously makes for bad reading; and of course one should never to so spuriously. But what is so wrong or uncivil (or even "snarky") about pointing out this simple fact, in egregious cases when there's just no ifs, buts or mitigating factors about it? Or is just the fecal labeling? Would you prefer we stick to more G-rated terminology like "nonsense" and "balderdash"? I suppose I could live with that.
  - 2y ago

dang 2y ago

> why $nation in particular are so butthurt about it With this you did again exactly what I just asked you to stop doing. That's not cool. The historical details you're bringing up are irrelevant to whether you're breaking HN's rules or not—for moderation purposes none of that matters. What matters is that making provocative, pejorative, or scornful references to other countries or their people is nationalistic flamebait which leads to hellthreads, which we don't want on HN. I don't think this is at all hard to understand, so no more of this please. In addition to the above: having just taken a look at your commenting history, it's clear that you've been using HN primarily for political and nationalistic battle. Just as I said to the other user, that's not allowed on HN and we ban accounts that do it, regardless of which side you're battling for or against. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on, we'd appreciate it.