3 ms·

I think it's common for people to take huge loans from the traffickers. So it's not really $72k up front. It's some smaller amount + a cut of what you earn onc

I think it's common for people to take huge loans from the traffickers. So it's not really $72k up front. It's some smaller amount + a cut of what you earn once you're working in the higher income country. Horrific nonetheless.

alephnerd 2y ago
In Punjab+Haryana+JK+HP (where most of the migrants on the route are from), these loans are backed by large land holdings that are already worth $100-200k. A $70-100k loan is affordable when you have land worth $200k and semi-passive income of around $7-20k (fairly common for LANDED agrarians in Northwest India) The issue is some people are ignorant and don't realize that they can deploy capital in a much more efficient manner (eg. Go to college, start a factory, grow organics, buy property in Mohali) and fall prey to advertisements on social media about how you can earn $75,000 a year as a janitor illegally (not realizing that income tax is a thing AND undocumented laborers would be paid way less).
- gtirloni 2y ago
  This is an honest question since I know nothing about these tax systems, but are illegal immigrants able to open bank accounts and thus fall under the supervision of the tax authority? EDIT: thanks for all your insights here, I learned something today which is cool. I can't help but be a bit philosophical about this thinking that illegal imigrants are denied citizenship (which, to be honest, I think is fine and would prefer the legal route for something like this) but the government is happy to collect its payment from them.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    All you need is a valid form of government ID (eg. passport, driver's license) and a source of income to open a bank account without immediately getting AMLed. That said, most undocumented migrants don't understand these complex systems and will go unbanked by being cash first or using hawala networks
  - gruez 2y ago
    >but are illegal immigrants able to open bank accounts and thus fall under the supervision of the tax authority? The typical employee is taxed via withholding tax[1] by their employers, not through their bank accounts. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_withholding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_withholding
    - migrantsmigrate 2y ago
      These people aren't getting above board jobs usually, they'll be working illegally. The person that cleans my house from time to time is undocumented, for example, but she declares income and pays taxes.
  - burkaman 2y ago
    Yes, opening a bank account is not trivial but it is doable, and if you don't have a social security number you can get one of these to pay income taxes: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individual-taxpayer-identification-number https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individual-taxpayer-identifi.... Here's a longer explanation: https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-federal-taxes-an-explainer/ https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do-undocumented-immigr.... Although this is difficult, it's actually pretty common: > The best evidence suggests that at least 50 percent of undocumented immigrant households currently file income tax returns using Individual Tax Identification Numbers (ITINs), and many who do not file income tax returns still have taxes deducted from their paychecks. - https://itep.sfo2.digitaloceanspaces.com/immigration2016.pdf https://itep.sfo2.digitaloceanspaces.com/immigration2016.pdf Remember that most undocumented immigrants don't believe they've broken any laws (and many haven't), so of course they're going to pay taxes if they can.

alephnerd 2y ago

In Punjab+Haryana+JK+HP (where most of the migrants on the route are from), these loans are backed by large land holdings that are already worth $100-200k. A $70-100k loan is affordable when you have land worth $200k and semi-passive income of around $7-20k (fairly common for LANDED agrarians in Northwest India) The issue is some people are ignorant and don't realize that they can deploy capital in a much more efficient manner (eg. Go to college, start a factory, grow organics, buy property in Mohali) and fall prey to advertisements on social media about how you can earn $75,000 a year as a janitor illegally (not realizing that income tax is a thing AND undocumented laborers would be paid way less).

gtirloni 2y ago
This is an honest question since I know nothing about these tax systems, but are illegal immigrants able to open bank accounts and thus fall under the supervision of the tax authority? EDIT: thanks for all your insights here, I learned something today which is cool. I can't help but be a bit philosophical about this thinking that illegal imigrants are denied citizenship (which, to be honest, I think is fine and would prefer the legal route for something like this) but the government is happy to collect its payment from them.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  All you need is a valid form of government ID (eg. passport, driver's license) and a source of income to open a bank account without immediately getting AMLed. That said, most undocumented migrants don't understand these complex systems and will go unbanked by being cash first or using hawala networks
- gruez 2y ago
  >but are illegal immigrants able to open bank accounts and thus fall under the supervision of the tax authority? The typical employee is taxed via withholding tax[1] by their employers, not through their bank accounts. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_withholding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_withholding
  - migrantsmigrate 2y ago
    These people aren't getting above board jobs usually, they'll be working illegally. The person that cleans my house from time to time is undocumented, for example, but she declares income and pays taxes.
- burkaman 2y ago
  Yes, opening a bank account is not trivial but it is doable, and if you don't have a social security number you can get one of these to pay income taxes: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individual-taxpayer-identification-number https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individual-taxpayer-identifi.... Here's a longer explanation: https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-federal-taxes-an-explainer/ https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do-undocumented-immigr.... Although this is difficult, it's actually pretty common: > The best evidence suggests that at least 50 percent of undocumented immigrant households currently file income tax returns using Individual Tax Identification Numbers (ITINs), and many who do not file income tax returns still have taxes deducted from their paychecks. - https://itep.sfo2.digitaloceanspaces.com/immigration2016.pdf https://itep.sfo2.digitaloceanspaces.com/immigration2016.pdf Remember that most undocumented immigrants don't believe they've broken any laws (and many haven't), so of course they're going to pay taxes if they can.