20 ms·

Not every open source software has spyware and ads activated by default, while marketing itself as privacy friendly. Yes, can all be deactivated, I also use FF

by lukan 2y ago

Not every open source software has spyware and ads activated by default, while marketing itself as privacy friendly. Yes, can all be deactivated, I also use FF, but I do not trust Mozilla anymore.

garbagewoman 2y ago
Can you elaborate on what you mean by your claims of firefox having “spyware and ads activated by default”?
- lukan 2y ago
  Install a new version of firefox, have a look in settings under "data" (or whatever they call it in english). There you will see "studies" as activated, which is cryptic talk for ad tracking. And more recently, literal tracking for a advertisement company. And as a bonus, those were added and activated as features via update, without telling. At least for me. (and paid ads you have on the home screen)
  - worksonmine 2y ago
    Studies are not ad tracking. It's worse and more like a backdoor for A/B testing of browser features. A few years back an update broke the Metamask extension and it was fixed by pushing via studies. At that point users weren't very aware the feature even existed and it caused some backlash since users realized there was a backdoor to push code into their browsers. The backlash resulted in studies being opt-in, and I thought it still was but I don't know, I use "policies.json" to setup my browsers.
    - bongobingo1 2y ago
      Am I being a total chud? These don't really seem egregious? I already accept (and expect) that Firefox receives background updates in the background. https://i.imgur.com/S7d4ZXg.png https://i.imgur.com/S7d4ZXg.png https://i.imgur.com/n2euIrQ.png https://i.imgur.com/n2euIrQ.png https://i.imgur.com/BUjukOy.png https://i.imgur.com/BUjukOy.png
      - worksonmine 2y ago
        I don't mind the feature as opt-in, just like telemetry it can be useful. But depending on the threat model it can be a big problem. I still use Firefox as my main browser.
  - lawn 2y ago
    > And as a bonus, those were added and activated as features via update, without telling. At least for me. Ouch, they were new to me and also activated.
    - lukan 2y ago
      Yep, stuff like this makes me question many things. I mean in a sane world this should be enough to sue them into oblivion. But the general bar in that regard is so low, that apparently even open source companies can do it as default.
      - garbagewoman 2y ago
        Why don’t you think it’s a sane enough world to “sue them into oblivion”?
        lukan 2y ago
        Because I do not think one will have success with it. Same with Microsoft, Google and co.
miki123211 2y ago
Firefox is open source, it would be far easier for the community to make a stripped down Firefox port with no telemetry, no ads and no upsells for Mozilla services. With that said, almost all of Mozilla's revenue comes from Google, which might possibly influence what features they implement, their stance on various web standards etc.
- maccard 2y ago
  > which might possibly influence what features they implement, their stance on various web standards etc. Unless you’ve got some examples to back this up, it’s FUD. Posting hypotheticals is how rumours start, and this is just stirring the pot.
  - Ginden 2y ago
    Conflict of interests is a real thing to worry about. I wouldn't trust scientist working in tobacco company on cigarette harm, even if I have no evidence of wrongdoing.
- lukan 2y ago
  Yes and those forks exists and are a solution now. But long term, I would much rather see a truly independent open source browser engine.
- wakeupcall 2y ago
  As pointed out, these do exist. I've been using several over the decades. And chrome forks too. They all tend to lag behind over time, until the fork is eventually too old and it's either abandoned, useful changes I was relying on are dropped, or becomes just too old compared to upstream to be fully compatible (and thus just annoying to use). Just the burden to upkeep the upstream changes, in either firefox or chrome forks, seems to be significant enough that I'm quite pessimistic on the lifespan of these projects. You might just as well do your own thing, and don't pretend to be a mainstream browser replacement altogether.
  - sharlos201068 2y ago
nutrie 2y ago
Sure, there are forks such as LibreWolf. I understand the reservations regarding Mozilla Foundation, although I generally like what they've been doing. Every org has people with stupid ideas. However, the way I see it, it's unlikely that the community will be able to produce a competitive browser in a broader sense (stability, performance, security, cross-platform...), meaning that the likelihood of Firefox being still around ten years from now is significantly higher than that we build and maintain a comparable browser ourselves. Then come the evolving web standards and lobbying power...
- flohofwoe 2y ago
  The way things are going at Mozilla currently, I wouldn't be surprised if Firefox is just another Chromium wrapper in 10 years. Technology doesn't seem to count as much as the C-suite filling their pockets at this "new" Mozilla.
PrayagS 2y ago
Ikr. They're up to some questionable decisions since long. - Acquire companies like Pocket, Anonym in multi-million dollar deals and also the millions in bonuses that the CEO likes to enjoy. - At the same time, no significant expenditure towards developing its core software. Firefox is still ridden with bugs. They even went as far as firing the people that used to work on Servo, Rust, WASM, etc. I think it's clear to them that there's not enough money to be made with small tricks like Pocket, VPN, Relay, etc. Firefox is still the only profitable product and contributes ~90% to Mozilla's revenue. Much of it coming from Google which is the one thing that people have been asking them to be less dependent on. And we shouldn't be surprised if they double down on making more money off of Google and also introduce ads. Acquiring Anonym, an ads company, implies that it might have already started.
- lukan 2y ago
  "They even went as far as firing the people that used to work on Servo, Rust, WASM, etc." And at the same time greatly raising compensation for the CEO, despite shrinking numbers.
- HeckFeck 2y ago
  Servo had so much potential as the flagship Rust project, a fast and memory safe browser engine. Such a loss to see it jettisoned and abandoned. Myopic decisions like these are filling the cloud of pessimism that now shrouds Mozilla.
  - yencabulator 2y ago
    FWIW Servo is seeing work as e.g. an Electron replacement. There is hope, even if one wishes the Mozilla Foundation CEO had used some $6M on developer salaries instead of pocketing it. Full browser feature set is hard, but an app that bundles its own webview can choose to not trigger the edge cases, so that's a realistic path forward.
- antihero 2y ago
  Also they stopped developing Servo :(
nullpilot 2y ago
This about sums it up. Plus donating to Mozilla means your money goes to all sorts of things, but hardly if at all where you want it to.
sebazzz 2y ago
> Yes, can all be deactivated, I also use FF, but I do not trust Mozilla anymore. And so I feel much more at home with Microsoft Edge and Google Chrome.

by lukan 2y ago

Not every open source software has spyware and ads activated by default, while marketing itself as privacy friendly. Yes, can all be deactivated, I also use FF, but I do not trust Mozilla anymore.

garbagewoman 2y ago

Can you elaborate on what you mean by your claims of firefox having “spyware and ads activated by default”?

lukan 2y ago
Install a new version of firefox, have a look in settings under "data" (or whatever they call it in english). There you will see "studies" as activated, which is cryptic talk for ad tracking. And more recently, literal tracking for a advertisement company. And as a bonus, those were added and activated as features via update, without telling. At least for me. (and paid ads you have on the home screen)
- worksonmine 2y ago
  Studies are not ad tracking. It's worse and more like a backdoor for A/B testing of browser features. A few years back an update broke the Metamask extension and it was fixed by pushing via studies. At that point users weren't very aware the feature even existed and it caused some backlash since users realized there was a backdoor to push code into their browsers. The backlash resulted in studies being opt-in, and I thought it still was but I don't know, I use "policies.json" to setup my browsers.
  - bongobingo1 2y ago
    Am I being a total chud? These don't really seem egregious? I already accept (and expect) that Firefox receives background updates in the background. https://i.imgur.com/S7d4ZXg.png https://i.imgur.com/S7d4ZXg.png https://i.imgur.com/n2euIrQ.png https://i.imgur.com/n2euIrQ.png https://i.imgur.com/BUjukOy.png https://i.imgur.com/BUjukOy.png
    - worksonmine 2y ago
      I don't mind the feature as opt-in, just like telemetry it can be useful. But depending on the threat model it can be a big problem. I still use Firefox as my main browser.
- lawn 2y ago
  > And as a bonus, those were added and activated as features via update, without telling. At least for me. Ouch, they were new to me and also activated.
  - lukan 2y ago
    Yep, stuff like this makes me question many things. I mean in a sane world this should be enough to sue them into oblivion. But the general bar in that regard is so low, that apparently even open source companies can do it as default.
    - garbagewoman 2y ago
      Why don’t you think it’s a sane enough world to “sue them into oblivion”?
      - lukan 2y ago
        Because I do not think one will have success with it. Same with Microsoft, Google and co.

miki123211 2y ago

Firefox is open source, it would be far easier for the community to make a stripped down Firefox port with no telemetry, no ads and no upsells for Mozilla services. With that said, almost all of Mozilla's revenue comes from Google, which might possibly influence what features they implement, their stance on various web standards etc.

maccard 2y ago
> which might possibly influence what features they implement, their stance on various web standards etc. Unless you’ve got some examples to back this up, it’s FUD. Posting hypotheticals is how rumours start, and this is just stirring the pot.
- Ginden 2y ago
  Conflict of interests is a real thing to worry about. I wouldn't trust scientist working in tobacco company on cigarette harm, even if I have no evidence of wrongdoing.
lukan 2y ago
Yes and those forks exists and are a solution now. But long term, I would much rather see a truly independent open source browser engine.
wakeupcall 2y ago
As pointed out, these do exist. I've been using several over the decades. And chrome forks too. They all tend to lag behind over time, until the fork is eventually too old and it's either abandoned, useful changes I was relying on are dropped, or becomes just too old compared to upstream to be fully compatible (and thus just annoying to use). Just the burden to upkeep the upstream changes, in either firefox or chrome forks, seems to be significant enough that I'm quite pessimistic on the lifespan of these projects. You might just as well do your own thing, and don't pretend to be a mainstream browser replacement altogether.
- sharlos201068 2y ago

nutrie 2y ago

Sure, there are forks such as LibreWolf. I understand the reservations regarding Mozilla Foundation, although I generally like what they've been doing. Every org has people with stupid ideas. However, the way I see it, it's unlikely that the community will be able to produce a competitive browser in a broader sense (stability, performance, security, cross-platform...), meaning that the likelihood of Firefox being still around ten years from now is significantly higher than that we build and maintain a comparable browser ourselves. Then come the evolving web standards and lobbying power...

flohofwoe 2y ago
The way things are going at Mozilla currently, I wouldn't be surprised if Firefox is just another Chromium wrapper in 10 years. Technology doesn't seem to count as much as the C-suite filling their pockets at this "new" Mozilla.

PrayagS 2y ago

Ikr. They're up to some questionable decisions since long. - Acquire companies like Pocket, Anonym in multi-million dollar deals and also the millions in bonuses that the CEO likes to enjoy. - At the same time, no significant expenditure towards developing its core software. Firefox is still ridden with bugs. They even went as far as firing the people that used to work on Servo, Rust, WASM, etc. I think it's clear to them that there's not enough money to be made with small tricks like Pocket, VPN, Relay, etc. Firefox is still the only profitable product and contributes ~90% to Mozilla's revenue. Much of it coming from Google which is the one thing that people have been asking them to be less dependent on. And we shouldn't be surprised if they double down on making more money off of Google and also introduce ads. Acquiring Anonym, an ads company, implies that it might have already started.

lukan 2y ago
"They even went as far as firing the people that used to work on Servo, Rust, WASM, etc." And at the same time greatly raising compensation for the CEO, despite shrinking numbers.
HeckFeck 2y ago
Servo had so much potential as the flagship Rust project, a fast and memory safe browser engine. Such a loss to see it jettisoned and abandoned. Myopic decisions like these are filling the cloud of pessimism that now shrouds Mozilla.
- yencabulator 2y ago
  FWIW Servo is seeing work as e.g. an Electron replacement. There is hope, even if one wishes the Mozilla Foundation CEO had used some $6M on developer salaries instead of pocketing it. Full browser feature set is hard, but an app that bundles its own webview can choose to not trigger the edge cases, so that's a realistic path forward.
antihero 2y ago
Also they stopped developing Servo :(

nullpilot 2y ago

This about sums it up. Plus donating to Mozilla means your money goes to all sorts of things, but hardly if at all where you want it to.

sebazzz 2y ago

> Yes, can all be deactivated, I also use FF, but I do not trust Mozilla anymore. And so I feel much more at home with Microsoft Edge and Google Chrome.