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> It's a blessing due to the freedom FOSS software provides; not all software is going to fit everybody's needs, and FOSS allows the freedom to modify software

> It's a blessing due to the freedom FOSS software provides; not all software is going to fit everybody's needs, and FOSS allows the freedom to modify software tools. In my view, the lack of singular vision and focus is not something intrinsic to FOSS. When i look like at projects like blender3d, Cpython, linux kernel,LLVM etc... I think a project can be fully OSS, with a degree of cohesion and focus conducive to faster interation and improvements. I would even go as far as saying that the most successfull projects tends to be that way. The linux desktop space just seems to be particularly fragmented. Seems to be mainly from the historical of a system born mainly from command line space, a weird attachment to a certain "old ways" of doing things etc... And a whole lot of strong personalities too busy bike shedding to see the forest from the tree. > For example, the transition from X to Wayland would've probably gone smoother if there were a powerful entity that was able to enforce its will among Linux users and developers, but since there is no singular Linux community, the "bazaar" independently adopted Wayland at each project's own pace. That's fair. A strong leader would have helped. But i think more than a strong leader, a shift in the community culture is more what's needed. But i am not holding my breath. People interested in desktop OS are either using MacOS or windows 11.

flakeoil 2y ago
> In my view, the lack of singular vision and focus is not something intrinsic to FOSS. When i look like at projects like blender3d, Cpython, linux kernel,LLVM etc... I think one of the differences here is that the Desktop is more of an aesthetics and ergonomic thing compared to your examples above. It's harder for people to agree on and when there are subjective feelings around it instead of objective, there is a need for a central decision point which takes quick decisions.
- soulbadguy 2y ago
  To a certain extend i agree. I can see how we can see the world of easthetism less objective and therefore harder to drive consensus around. But i don't think the problem with linux desktop is the easthetics. Agreeing on the objectives and fundational technical decisions. For example, kernel scheduling policy influencing latency and desktop responsiveness, X vs wayland and the impact on things like touch screen etc...
pauby 2y ago
> People interested in desktop OS are either using MacOS or windows 11. This feels very much like its written by somebody who hasn't used Linux as a desktop OS and is an unneeded back-handed comment that does the rest of your otherwise reasonable comment, a dis-service.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Those of us that care about 100% of laptop features are mostly using macOS, Windows, or eventually ChromeOS, with our Desktop Linux VMs (VMWare, Virtual Box, Virtualization framework, WSL, Crostini). Even if buying from Tuxedo or System76, there is some footnote on some features that might not exactly work out. Now if Desktop Linux is a traditional deskto/tower PC, or something like a Raspeberry kind of devices, then yeah probably everything works, including YouTube hardware video decoding and such. Using GNU/Linux distributions since 1995.
  - soulbadguy 2y ago
    > eventually ChromeOS I actually forgot about this. have you used chromeos for anything else than just a frontend/terminal ?
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      No, I don't see the value when there are better laptops.
- soulbadguy 2y ago
  And yet i have used Ubuntu for the last 12 years, 6 of which as my main driver. Even as we speak i still have ubuntu on my laptop (my desktop is running windows , with some vmware instance of unbutu). But as i get older, and have more responsibilities. I have less and less time for tinkering and need to have something reliable without fuss. I can't count the number of friends like me who were die hard linux fan who progressively moved to MacOs (better hardware helps, but also better app ecosystem) just for practical reasons. But in many ways , your comment is a reflection of what i was trying to articulate. Any criticism of linux/desktop (and note here that i am only criticizing the desktop experience. The server side and command line are second to none) is always frame as a problem of the user... either you are using wrong, or you don't know what good, or things work on my machine must be a you problem...

flakeoil 2y ago

> In my view, the lack of singular vision and focus is not something intrinsic to FOSS. When i look like at projects like blender3d, Cpython, linux kernel,LLVM etc... I think one of the differences here is that the Desktop is more of an aesthetics and ergonomic thing compared to your examples above. It's harder for people to agree on and when there are subjective feelings around it instead of objective, there is a need for a central decision point which takes quick decisions.

soulbadguy 2y ago
To a certain extend i agree. I can see how we can see the world of easthetism less objective and therefore harder to drive consensus around. But i don't think the problem with linux desktop is the easthetics. Agreeing on the objectives and fundational technical decisions. For example, kernel scheduling policy influencing latency and desktop responsiveness, X vs wayland and the impact on things like touch screen etc...

pauby 2y ago

> People interested in desktop OS are either using MacOS or windows 11. This feels very much like its written by somebody who hasn't used Linux as a desktop OS and is an unneeded back-handed comment that does the rest of your otherwise reasonable comment, a dis-service.

pjmlp 2y ago
Those of us that care about 100% of laptop features are mostly using macOS, Windows, or eventually ChromeOS, with our Desktop Linux VMs (VMWare, Virtual Box, Virtualization framework, WSL, Crostini). Even if buying from Tuxedo or System76, there is some footnote on some features that might not exactly work out. Now if Desktop Linux is a traditional deskto/tower PC, or something like a Raspeberry kind of devices, then yeah probably everything works, including YouTube hardware video decoding and such. Using GNU/Linux distributions since 1995.
- soulbadguy 2y ago
  > eventually ChromeOS I actually forgot about this. have you used chromeos for anything else than just a frontend/terminal ?
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    No, I don't see the value when there are better laptops.
soulbadguy 2y ago
And yet i have used Ubuntu for the last 12 years, 6 of which as my main driver. Even as we speak i still have ubuntu on my laptop (my desktop is running windows , with some vmware instance of unbutu). But as i get older, and have more responsibilities. I have less and less time for tinkering and need to have something reliable without fuss. I can't count the number of friends like me who were die hard linux fan who progressively moved to MacOs (better hardware helps, but also better app ecosystem) just for practical reasons. But in many ways , your comment is a reflection of what i was trying to articulate. Any criticism of linux/desktop (and note here that i am only criticizing the desktop experience. The server side and command line are second to none) is always frame as a problem of the user... either you are using wrong, or you don't know what good, or things work on my machine must be a you problem...