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Gaza/Israel is not an open political system. They are subjects and born in a state that doesn't grant them the rights of people equally subject to and born in t

by aprilthird2021 2y ago

Gaza/Israel is not an open political system. They are subjects and born in a state that doesn't grant them the rights of people equally subject to and born in the same area. My entire point was that closed political systems embolden radicals, Gaza makes that point extremely well. When you have zero chance of having a say in the government that controls all your borders, any and all food allowed into your area, any and all job prospects you have, etc. that's fertile ground for radicals. If Israel were a democracy (e.g. open political system) instead of having the majority of its subjects unable to vote or move freely within the land, it's obvious there would be no Hamas.

golergka 2y ago
Citizens of Gaza are not citizens neither subjects of Israel. Israeli citizens vote on Israeli elections, PA citizens vote on PA elections and Gaza citizens vote on Gaza elections. Israel doesn't occupy Gaza and doesn't control all the borders either — that's Israel and Egypt. And both of these countries decided to close borders and install maritime blockade only after Hamas stated indiscriminate attacks against civilians, which happened after it came to power.
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  They are not citizens (Israel considers them stateless) but they are subject to Israeli law and rule at every turn. Nothing can go into or out of Gaza, not even food, not even collected rainwater, without Israeli permission. The point is, it's as closed a political system as it gets. No matter what the polity does, their situation cannot change because they have no rights in the government that controls their lives (Israel)
  - golergka 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      Palestine is not a country according to Israel and they do not treat anyone living there as a citizen of a separate country. No country in the world has total control of any other country's electricity, food rationing, water rationing, import / export, ability to work, ability to depart and arrive from the country. You constantly mention Egypt as if it somehow makes all the facts I've stated false. But it does not. If they cooperate to create the same situation the situation does not change. There are still 2 million stateless people whose electricity, food, water, internet, and basically all access to the outside world is controlled by governments they are not citizens of.
    - racional 2y ago
      That's not true at all, Israel doesn't operate any courts in Gaza. Right - the people there are under martial law, which is even worse. Gaza has a border with Egypt Which Israel has seized control of.

golergka 2y ago

Citizens of Gaza are not citizens neither subjects of Israel. Israeli citizens vote on Israeli elections, PA citizens vote on PA elections and Gaza citizens vote on Gaza elections. Israel doesn't occupy Gaza and doesn't control all the borders either — that's Israel and Egypt. And both of these countries decided to close borders and install maritime blockade only after Hamas stated indiscriminate attacks against civilians, which happened after it came to power.

aprilthird2021 2y ago
They are not citizens (Israel considers them stateless) but they are subject to Israeli law and rule at every turn. Nothing can go into or out of Gaza, not even food, not even collected rainwater, without Israeli permission. The point is, it's as closed a political system as it gets. No matter what the polity does, their situation cannot change because they have no rights in the government that controls their lives (Israel)
- golergka 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    Palestine is not a country according to Israel and they do not treat anyone living there as a citizen of a separate country. No country in the world has total control of any other country's electricity, food rationing, water rationing, import / export, ability to work, ability to depart and arrive from the country. You constantly mention Egypt as if it somehow makes all the facts I've stated false. But it does not. If they cooperate to create the same situation the situation does not change. There are still 2 million stateless people whose electricity, food, water, internet, and basically all access to the outside world is controlled by governments they are not citizens of.
  - racional 2y ago
    That's not true at all, Israel doesn't operate any courts in Gaza. Right - the people there are under martial law, which is even worse. Gaza has a border with Egypt Which Israel has seized control of.