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Gaming on OSX is a disaster due to no official Vulkan support and OpenGL capped at 4.1. Its like a big “go away” sign. Even before that, performance and frame r

Gaming on OSX is a disaster due to no official Vulkan support and OpenGL capped at 4.1. Its like a big “go away” sign. Even before that, performance and frame rates were lower. A luxury car. Ubuntu with its Unity design first, then Snap, put desktop Linux back a decade. What a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. A SUV. Win11 is stable and fast(ish), but we’d be crazy to depend on a commercial OS for privacy, security and long term stability (unless subscription model). A sedan. Haiku is amazing, but why are there so little users and devs? With Chromium based apps (eg. Falcon) the modern web is no longer a problem on Haiku. It’s actually got the most modern design of the batch I’m listing,the least bloat and performance is great. Batmobile. The ‘BSDs. Great performance, reliable systems, great license, they do need a simple GUI installer. Trucks.

musicale 2y ago
> Gaming on OSX is a disaster due to no official Vulkan support and OpenGL capped at 4.1 Game development on OSX is fantastic for thousands of iOS game developers. iPad games can often run out of the box.
- soulbadguy 2y ago
  gaming != game devolvement though...
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    It is hard to get games without game development.
    - soulbadguy 2y ago
      Not sure i am following the point here. OP mentioned that MacOS is still lagging a gaming OS. To which someone replied that MacOs is agreat game development platform. I was just pointing out that being a good Os to develop game is very different to being a good OS to play/run games...
soulbadguy 2y ago
> Ubuntu with its Unity design first, then Snap, put desktop Linux back a decade. What a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. A SUV. Strongly disagree. It seems to me that Ubuntu was( and still is) the main driver behind most of the improvements in the linux desktop space. The linux desktop experiences lagged being MacOS and windows for years. Even after ubuntu transitioned back to gnome, they still made a lot of improvements which lead to significantly better UX. The curse of linux desktop, is that the linux community seems to be allergic to any changes be it systemd,unity or snap packages.
- linguae 2y ago
  For better or worse, part of the story of the FOSS ecosystem is that there is no singular "Linux community." Rather, there are many communities with different interests, some of them overlapping, some of them complementary, and some of them competing. There are plenty of detractors to modern technologies such as systemd and Wayland, but there are also plenty of supporters (or else those technologies wouldn't have gotten adopted in the first place), and there are people who don't have a passionate opinion one way or the other as long as their software works. This lack of a singular community is simultaneously a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing due to the freedom FOSS software provides; not all software is going to fit everybody's needs, and FOSS allows the freedom to modify software tools. However, the curses are resources spread thinly across competing projects, as well as the rough, sometimes chaotic development cycles that sometimes occur in bazaar-style projects that lack Steve Jobs-esque "benevolent dictators" who have a clear vision for the product being developed. For example, the transition from X to Wayland would've probably gone smoother if there were a powerful entity that was able to enforce its will among Linux users and developers, but since there is no singular Linux community, the "bazaar" independently adopted Wayland at each project's own pace. This is the fundamental difference between Linux versus platforms whose vendors exert greater control, such as Windows and especially macOS.
  - soulbadguy 2y ago
    > It's a blessing due to the freedom FOSS software provides; not all software is going to fit everybody's needs, and FOSS allows the freedom to modify software tools. In my view, the lack of singular vision and focus is not something intrinsic to FOSS. When i look like at projects like blender3d, Cpython, linux kernel,LLVM etc... I think a project can be fully OSS, with a degree of cohesion and focus conducive to faster interation and improvements. I would even go as far as saying that the most successfull projects tends to be that way. The linux desktop space just seems to be particularly fragmented. Seems to be mainly from the historical of a system born mainly from command line space, a weird attachment to a certain "old ways" of doing things etc... And a whole lot of strong personalities too busy bike shedding to see the forest from the tree. > For example, the transition from X to Wayland would've probably gone smoother if there were a powerful entity that was able to enforce its will among Linux users and developers, but since there is no singular Linux community, the "bazaar" independently adopted Wayland at each project's own pace. That's fair. A strong leader would have helped. But i think more than a strong leader, a shift in the community culture is more what's needed. But i am not holding my breath. People interested in desktop OS are either using MacOS or windows 11.
BuyMyBitcoins 2y ago
>”Win11 is stable and fast(ish)” I notice a subtle delay whenever launching most Microsoft made applications. I wonder what possibly goes on behind the scenes to make the “new” calculator and photo viewer take a second to load on each launch. The “old” versions always launched immediately. I can’t help but think that telemetry is the reason. Or perhaps it is a combination of telemetry and bloat.
- soulbadguy 2y ago
  +1 for telemetry Do you have an intel post 12th gen with big/little cores ? The scheduler still have some issues in some weird corner cases.
- sphars 2y ago
  Yep I feel the same lag when I try and open PowerToys on Windows 10. For being an official MS product, it's super slow to load and seems "heavy", even with telemetry and most options turned off. Maybe it's just me.
  - grumpyprole 2y ago
    The PowerToys UI is a dot net application I believe.
- znpy 2y ago
  I'm no windows expert but I recall windows had introduced some signature checking and other security measures in Windows. Chances are that more than telemetry, some of that kind of checks are being made on the binary and the libraries it loads on startup. I'm a 100% GNU/Linux guy but it would be dishonest not to acknowledge that Windows security has improved a lot if compared to where it was once upon a time. It's a big sad thing that Microsoft is pushing so many dystopic stuff, Windows could have become a great OS.
pjmlp 2y ago
All major game engines support Metal for years now, it is only a "disaster" for FOSS folks. Having Vulkan and OpenGL on GNU/Linux does hardly help changing the mind of most AAA game studios to port their Android NDK games with Vulkan/OpenGL ES into GNU/Linux, instead Steam has to emulate Windows and DirectX, to get any reasonable number of games on GNU/Linux.

musicale 2y ago

> Gaming on OSX is a disaster due to no official Vulkan support and OpenGL capped at 4.1 Game development on OSX is fantastic for thousands of iOS game developers. iPad games can often run out of the box.

soulbadguy 2y ago
gaming != game devolvement though...
- pjmlp 2y ago
  It is hard to get games without game development.
  - soulbadguy 2y ago
    Not sure i am following the point here. OP mentioned that MacOS is still lagging a gaming OS. To which someone replied that MacOs is agreat game development platform. I was just pointing out that being a good Os to develop game is very different to being a good OS to play/run games...

soulbadguy 2y ago

> Ubuntu with its Unity design first, then Snap, put desktop Linux back a decade. What a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. A SUV. Strongly disagree. It seems to me that Ubuntu was( and still is) the main driver behind most of the improvements in the linux desktop space. The linux desktop experiences lagged being MacOS and windows for years. Even after ubuntu transitioned back to gnome, they still made a lot of improvements which lead to significantly better UX. The curse of linux desktop, is that the linux community seems to be allergic to any changes be it systemd,unity or snap packages.

linguae 2y ago
For better or worse, part of the story of the FOSS ecosystem is that there is no singular "Linux community." Rather, there are many communities with different interests, some of them overlapping, some of them complementary, and some of them competing. There are plenty of detractors to modern technologies such as systemd and Wayland, but there are also plenty of supporters (or else those technologies wouldn't have gotten adopted in the first place), and there are people who don't have a passionate opinion one way or the other as long as their software works. This lack of a singular community is simultaneously a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing due to the freedom FOSS software provides; not all software is going to fit everybody's needs, and FOSS allows the freedom to modify software tools. However, the curses are resources spread thinly across competing projects, as well as the rough, sometimes chaotic development cycles that sometimes occur in bazaar-style projects that lack Steve Jobs-esque "benevolent dictators" who have a clear vision for the product being developed. For example, the transition from X to Wayland would've probably gone smoother if there were a powerful entity that was able to enforce its will among Linux users and developers, but since there is no singular Linux community, the "bazaar" independently adopted Wayland at each project's own pace. This is the fundamental difference between Linux versus platforms whose vendors exert greater control, such as Windows and especially macOS.
- soulbadguy 2y ago
  > It's a blessing due to the freedom FOSS software provides; not all software is going to fit everybody's needs, and FOSS allows the freedom to modify software tools. In my view, the lack of singular vision and focus is not something intrinsic to FOSS. When i look like at projects like blender3d, Cpython, linux kernel,LLVM etc... I think a project can be fully OSS, with a degree of cohesion and focus conducive to faster interation and improvements. I would even go as far as saying that the most successfull projects tends to be that way. The linux desktop space just seems to be particularly fragmented. Seems to be mainly from the historical of a system born mainly from command line space, a weird attachment to a certain "old ways" of doing things etc... And a whole lot of strong personalities too busy bike shedding to see the forest from the tree. > For example, the transition from X to Wayland would've probably gone smoother if there were a powerful entity that was able to enforce its will among Linux users and developers, but since there is no singular Linux community, the "bazaar" independently adopted Wayland at each project's own pace. That's fair. A strong leader would have helped. But i think more than a strong leader, a shift in the community culture is more what's needed. But i am not holding my breath. People interested in desktop OS are either using MacOS or windows 11.

BuyMyBitcoins 2y ago

>”Win11 is stable and fast(ish)” I notice a subtle delay whenever launching most Microsoft made applications. I wonder what possibly goes on behind the scenes to make the “new” calculator and photo viewer take a second to load on each launch. The “old” versions always launched immediately. I can’t help but think that telemetry is the reason. Or perhaps it is a combination of telemetry and bloat.

soulbadguy 2y ago
+1 for telemetry Do you have an intel post 12th gen with big/little cores ? The scheduler still have some issues in some weird corner cases.
sphars 2y ago
Yep I feel the same lag when I try and open PowerToys on Windows 10. For being an official MS product, it's super slow to load and seems "heavy", even with telemetry and most options turned off. Maybe it's just me.
- grumpyprole 2y ago
  The PowerToys UI is a dot net application I believe.
znpy 2y ago
I'm no windows expert but I recall windows had introduced some signature checking and other security measures in Windows. Chances are that more than telemetry, some of that kind of checks are being made on the binary and the libraries it loads on startup. I'm a 100% GNU/Linux guy but it would be dishonest not to acknowledge that Windows security has improved a lot if compared to where it was once upon a time. It's a big sad thing that Microsoft is pushing so many dystopic stuff, Windows could have become a great OS.

pjmlp 2y ago

All major game engines support Metal for years now, it is only a "disaster" for FOSS folks. Having Vulkan and OpenGL on GNU/Linux does hardly help changing the mind of most AAA game studios to port their Android NDK games with Vulkan/OpenGL ES into GNU/Linux, instead Steam has to emulate Windows and DirectX, to get any reasonable number of games on GNU/Linux.