3 ms·

I mean the way to fix it is to recognise that its absolutely cool to train AI on publicly available knowledge. Like its not a sin. Maybe it comes from growing

I mean the way to fix it is to recognise that its absolutely cool to train AI on publicly available knowledge. Like its not a sin. Maybe it comes from growing up with google hoovering up the internet, file sharing becoming common place and image boards making sharing copyrighted photos as reaction images the done thing. But I already feel like I own the sum total of human knowledge. I dont recognise sony or disney or the US government as valid inheritors or controllers of information. Its mine. And if there's a set of tools that can chew on that data to make new or interesting or collated or curated data then that just makes more data that I own. I own your art. I own your code. I own your stack overflow answers. I own every film and tv show and book from human history. And if that common ownership isn't the end goal then I dont know what is. If free use doesnt currently cover these cases it should be extended to cover them.

idle_zealot 2y ago
You're not going to find many copyright abolitionists here. Apparently the idea that culture and information is a public good and not a product to be bottled and sold is so unpopular that it won't even be stomached in order to defend HN's favorite tech companies.
- diputsmonro 2y ago
  Information in the abstract, maybe. But it's entirely different to assume ownership of artwork other people produce, either for profit or personal expression. Maybe I would feel a little differently if all the AI art I see came from a place of earnest artistic expression, but everything is just some kind of scam or another. You aren't going to convince me that honest artists deserve to have their art stolen (often by name) and livelihoods destroyed so that crypto grifters can generate NFT assets a little easier and scummy companies can lay off their art departments. This is a tool that will be used to concentrate wealth and keep the little guy down, pure and simple. And I'm definitely not swayed by the argument from this thread's OP of "I just want to steal everything I've ever seen and not have to do any hard work to create something myself".
CaptainFever 2y ago
I agree with you. People hate the powers of copyright until you give them some. Then they become even worse than Disney.
JohnFen 2y ago
> its absolutely cool to train AI on publicly available knowledge. Like its not a sin. I think it is a sin to train LLMs on other people's works without their permission, but I separate this out from whether or not it's legally permissible. Not everything that is legal is acceptable. In any case, right now anyway, the state of things is that if you put it on the open web, it's going to be used for training whether you approve of that or not. Which is why I and many others have abandoned the open web. It's impossible to publish there in a way that ensures that your work is not used in ways you disapprove of.

idle_zealot 2y ago

You're not going to find many copyright abolitionists here. Apparently the idea that culture and information is a public good and not a product to be bottled and sold is so unpopular that it won't even be stomached in order to defend HN's favorite tech companies.

diputsmonro 2y ago
Information in the abstract, maybe. But it's entirely different to assume ownership of artwork other people produce, either for profit or personal expression. Maybe I would feel a little differently if all the AI art I see came from a place of earnest artistic expression, but everything is just some kind of scam or another. You aren't going to convince me that honest artists deserve to have their art stolen (often by name) and livelihoods destroyed so that crypto grifters can generate NFT assets a little easier and scummy companies can lay off their art departments. This is a tool that will be used to concentrate wealth and keep the little guy down, pure and simple. And I'm definitely not swayed by the argument from this thread's OP of "I just want to steal everything I've ever seen and not have to do any hard work to create something myself".

CaptainFever 2y ago

I agree with you. People hate the powers of copyright until you give them some. Then they become even worse than Disney.

JohnFen 2y ago

> its absolutely cool to train AI on publicly available knowledge. Like its not a sin. I think it is a sin to train LLMs on other people's works without their permission, but I separate this out from whether or not it's legally permissible. Not everything that is legal is acceptable. In any case, right now anyway, the state of things is that if you put it on the open web, it's going to be used for training whether you approve of that or not. Which is why I and many others have abandoned the open web. It's impossible to publish there in a way that ensures that your work is not used in ways you disapprove of.