3 ms·

Get enough sun, but don't get sunburn. Can someone make a product that allows "just enough" sun through for people like me? I live in the northern latitudes of

by smeej 2y ago

Get enough sun, but don't get sunburn. Can someone make a product that allows "just enough" sun through for people like me? I live in the northern latitudes of the continental U.S. and take strongly after my Scandinavian ancestors. If I spend even 12 minutes outside in spring or fall (never mind summer!) in direct sunlight without a high SPF sunscreen, I burn. It doesn't fade to tan. It fades back to pale white, then burns again next time. I've tried building up a "tolerance" and it hasn't worked at all. I'm pasty white if I stay at or below 11 minutes and bright red if I hit 12. I'm not kidding when I say I would pay for an actual solution to this. I would love to spend more time outside in the sun.

mancerayder 2y ago
Limited exposure every couple of days, to allow UV to induce adaptation (melanin production) without too much damage, which makes it worse and sets you back (and is dangerous). 11 minutes between 10a and 2pm is even too much in the summer if you're out of hibernation. Maybe also explore medium SPF sunscreen. For me personally (not Scandinavian roots) after hibernation the first few exposures are key, and I try to be very conservative. Then I let myself recover for at least a day in between sun sessions. If I'm on vacation and I can't escape sun, then my recovery means high spf sunscreen. I treat it similar to exercise recovery - stress, rest, adaptation cycle.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- smeej 2y ago
  I appreciate your and other commenters suggestions, but I've been down all these roads. I spent a whole summer slowly "working my way up," 5 mins a day the first week, 6 mins a day the 2nd week, 7 the 3rd, etc. It doesn't matter. As soon as I hit 12 minutes once, I turn bright red. I can do 11 for as many days as I care to and my skin looks like I've not been outside in months. I know it's not just subtly changing either, because I don't end up with tan lines even though I always wear the same basic swimwear. I've also tried dminder, low SPF, all kinds of things. As far as I know, there isn't anything congenitally "wrong" with me or anything, but I wouldn't know what to look for to rule it out. I even had someone tell me the GAPS diet would fix it, but I did that for two (very boring) years, and it didn't help either. It could be that it's just hopeless, but it's bizarre to me that I should end up so evolutionarily unfit for my home planet.
  - lamp_book 2y ago
    I would look at a UV index chart for your area and act accordingly - e.g. deliberate sun exposure soon after sunrise and soon before sunset. But you might just be SOL, it sounds like you have skin type I on the Fitzpatrick scale which is no ability to tan or extremely difficult to tan. Something I considered is considered personally is moving somewhere further north and probably cloudier, just reality. Where I live now our max UV today is extreme - nearly 12. There is also supplementation you can look into but the science for isn’t concrete. I know there’s a thread on the tanning subreddit near the top of all time with a list of them and how they might help.
    - smeej 2y ago
      I just checked and the nearest city I could find results for and we have zero extreme days, 25ish very high, and more than half the year very low. Unfortunately (for this purpose; I generally love it here), I'm about as far north as I can get without moving to Alaska or another country. I think I just have to choose between the risks of skin cancer and the risks of whatever else might happen if I don't get enough sunshine. The latter is a bit more nebulous for the time being, so I guess I'll just keep making sure I don't go out without clothing coverage or high SPF.
tvier 2y ago
Long clothing and big hats are probably your best bet. If you want to learn more you can check out the Handbook Of Natural Fibres[1], but the short version is: white dye and looser weave mean less protection, colored dye and tighter weave mean more protection. It's mostly pretty intuitive, but the dye makes a bigger difference than you'd expect. A white cotton t-shirt might have a UPF rating around 5 (1/5th the UV exposure), while a colored shirt is likely above 20. [1] https://sci-hub.st/10.1533/9780857095510.1.141 https://sci-hub.st/10.1533/9780857095510.1.141.
bee_rider 2y ago
I’ve always been a little suspicious of sunscreen, it just seems too good to be true, and I wonder if people might use it as an excuse to stay out in the sun indefinitely. It just provides an attenuation factor after all. I wonder if you could select clothes so that you only get sun in locations that you can easily monitor and cover up when they start to burn. As a bonus, these should also be easy to keep an eye on for skin cancer, right? IDK “get skin cancer somewhere you can see it easily” seems like a pretty stupid suggestion, now that I wrote it out. But I can’t think of anything better.
instagib 2y ago
Fake tan DHA cream lotion. FDA approved. Along with a list of unapproved methods: https://www.newsweek.com/self-tanning-fake-tan-dangers-skin-cancer-risks-dermatologist-advice-1810003 https://www.newsweek.com/self-tanning-fake-tan-dangers-skin-...
SoftTalker 2y ago
Use SPF 15, you'll develop a tan, but unless you are really fair-skinned or stay out a really long time you shouldn't get burnt. Once you have a good base tan you can drop down to SPF 8 or maybe less. My ancestry is scadinavian and german and I will burn if I go out in the sun with my winter skin, but if I take some care I can get to the point where I don't really need sunscreen at all.
- smeej 2y ago
  The thing that sucks is that my other ancestry is Spanish and Italian. You would think it would help. SPF 15 doesn't do a thing for me in terms of extending the time before I burn, but I'll be fine all day with 30 as long as friction from clothes doesn't rub it off or water doesn't wash it away. (I offer the other details in case they make someone go, "Oh! I was the exact same way! Here's what ended up working for me," or some doctor goes, "Oh! With these fringe details, that tells me exactly why this is happening to you." I'm hoping someday LLMs will be able to take info like this and find the weird little niche answers that Google and other search engines' advertising focus have made impossible to find online.)
moltar 2y ago
Check the dminder app.

by smeej 2y ago

mancerayder 2y ago

Limited exposure every couple of days, to allow UV to induce adaptation (melanin production) without too much damage, which makes it worse and sets you back (and is dangerous). 11 minutes between 10a and 2pm is even too much in the summer if you're out of hibernation. Maybe also explore medium SPF sunscreen. For me personally (not Scandinavian roots) after hibernation the first few exposures are key, and I try to be very conservative. Then I let myself recover for at least a day in between sun sessions. If I'm on vacation and I can't escape sun, then my recovery means high spf sunscreen. I treat it similar to exercise recovery - stress, rest, adaptation cycle.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
smeej 2y ago
I appreciate your and other commenters suggestions, but I've been down all these roads. I spent a whole summer slowly "working my way up," 5 mins a day the first week, 6 mins a day the 2nd week, 7 the 3rd, etc. It doesn't matter. As soon as I hit 12 minutes once, I turn bright red. I can do 11 for as many days as I care to and my skin looks like I've not been outside in months. I know it's not just subtly changing either, because I don't end up with tan lines even though I always wear the same basic swimwear. I've also tried dminder, low SPF, all kinds of things. As far as I know, there isn't anything congenitally "wrong" with me or anything, but I wouldn't know what to look for to rule it out. I even had someone tell me the GAPS diet would fix it, but I did that for two (very boring) years, and it didn't help either. It could be that it's just hopeless, but it's bizarre to me that I should end up so evolutionarily unfit for my home planet.
- lamp_book 2y ago
  I would look at a UV index chart for your area and act accordingly - e.g. deliberate sun exposure soon after sunrise and soon before sunset. But you might just be SOL, it sounds like you have skin type I on the Fitzpatrick scale which is no ability to tan or extremely difficult to tan. Something I considered is considered personally is moving somewhere further north and probably cloudier, just reality. Where I live now our max UV today is extreme - nearly 12. There is also supplementation you can look into but the science for isn’t concrete. I know there’s a thread on the tanning subreddit near the top of all time with a list of them and how they might help.
  - smeej 2y ago
    I just checked and the nearest city I could find results for and we have zero extreme days, 25ish very high, and more than half the year very low. Unfortunately (for this purpose; I generally love it here), I'm about as far north as I can get without moving to Alaska or another country. I think I just have to choose between the risks of skin cancer and the risks of whatever else might happen if I don't get enough sunshine. The latter is a bit more nebulous for the time being, so I guess I'll just keep making sure I don't go out without clothing coverage or high SPF.

tvier 2y ago

Long clothing and big hats are probably your best bet. If you want to learn more you can check out the Handbook Of Natural Fibres[1], but the short version is: white dye and looser weave mean less protection, colored dye and tighter weave mean more protection. It's mostly pretty intuitive, but the dye makes a bigger difference than you'd expect. A white cotton t-shirt might have a UPF rating around 5 (1/5th the UV exposure), while a colored shirt is likely above 20. [1] https://sci-hub.st/10.1533/9780857095510.1.141 https://sci-hub.st/10.1533/9780857095510.1.141.

bee_rider 2y ago

I’ve always been a little suspicious of sunscreen, it just seems too good to be true, and I wonder if people might use it as an excuse to stay out in the sun indefinitely. It just provides an attenuation factor after all. I wonder if you could select clothes so that you only get sun in locations that you can easily monitor and cover up when they start to burn. As a bonus, these should also be easy to keep an eye on for skin cancer, right? IDK “get skin cancer somewhere you can see it easily” seems like a pretty stupid suggestion, now that I wrote it out. But I can’t think of anything better.

instagib 2y ago

Fake tan DHA cream lotion. FDA approved. Along with a list of unapproved methods: https://www.newsweek.com/self-tanning-fake-tan-dangers-skin-cancer-risks-dermatologist-advice-1810003 https://www.newsweek.com/self-tanning-fake-tan-dangers-skin-...

SoftTalker 2y ago

Use SPF 15, you'll develop a tan, but unless you are really fair-skinned or stay out a really long time you shouldn't get burnt. Once you have a good base tan you can drop down to SPF 8 or maybe less. My ancestry is scadinavian and german and I will burn if I go out in the sun with my winter skin, but if I take some care I can get to the point where I don't really need sunscreen at all.

smeej 2y ago
The thing that sucks is that my other ancestry is Spanish and Italian. You would think it would help. SPF 15 doesn't do a thing for me in terms of extending the time before I burn, but I'll be fine all day with 30 as long as friction from clothes doesn't rub it off or water doesn't wash it away. (I offer the other details in case they make someone go, "Oh! I was the exact same way! Here's what ended up working for me," or some doctor goes, "Oh! With these fringe details, that tells me exactly why this is happening to you." I'm hoping someday LLMs will be able to take info like this and find the weird little niche answers that Google and other search engines' advertising focus have made impossible to find online.)

moltar 2y ago

Check the dminder app.