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The Chinese EV Dilemma: Subsidized yet Striking

6 points by jseliger 2y ago

zer00eyz 2y ago
This is a great example of all that glitters is not gold. Chinese EV's fair about as well as you think they would. It is a race to the bottom here. However there is this: “China used less than 40% of its maximum cell output, and cathode and anode active material installed manufacturing capacity was almost 4 and 9 times greater than global EV cell demand in 2023.” Where the hell is the flood of batteries on the secondary market? Whole house battery at a discount anyone?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
johnea 2y ago
All of this talk about subsidies is very confusing. The US issues massive subsidies every year, most going to the petroleum industry, with farming another major recipient. Are subsidies only a problem when some other country issues them? And if many US residents could be driving a fully electric vehicle becuase China subsidised it's industry, that sounds like a good thing to me. The issue of vehicles exfiltrating data is not unique to china. All data gathering should be outlawed, for all industries, not just automotive, and not just china.
- fragmede 2y ago
  > Are subsidies only a problem when some other country issues them? No. There is a whole subsidies agreement for World Trade Organization member parties. https://www.trade.gov/trade-guide-wto-subsidies https://www.trade.gov/trade-guide-wto-subsidies Basically, there are prohibited subsidies and actionable subsidies, and the response is that countries can enact various tariffs against incoming goods. It's a whole mess of international relations. The idea is that companies compete globally on a level playing field to produce products for the global market. This is imperfect, of course, but that is the goal.
  - johnea 2y ago
    Its certainly a mess 8-/ These restrictions are basically being used to prevent access to affordable EVs in the US. After every major US car company has received major subsidies, including total economic bail outs, over the decades, this all seems extremely disingenuous.

6 points by jseliger 2y ago

This is a great example of all that glitters is not gold. Chinese EV's fair about as well as you think they would. It is a race to the bottom here. However there is this: “China used less than 40% of its maximum cell output, and cathode and anode active material installed manufacturing capacity was almost 4 and 9 times greater than global EV cell demand in 2023.” Where the hell is the flood of batteries on the secondary market? Whole house battery at a discount anyone?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

johnea 2y ago

All of this talk about subsidies is very confusing. The US issues massive subsidies every year, most going to the petroleum industry, with farming another major recipient. Are subsidies only a problem when some other country issues them? And if many US residents could be driving a fully electric vehicle becuase China subsidised it's industry, that sounds like a good thing to me. The issue of vehicles exfiltrating data is not unique to china. All data gathering should be outlawed, for all industries, not just automotive, and not just china.

fragmede 2y ago
> Are subsidies only a problem when some other country issues them? No. There is a whole subsidies agreement for World Trade Organization member parties. https://www.trade.gov/trade-guide-wto-subsidies https://www.trade.gov/trade-guide-wto-subsidies Basically, there are prohibited subsidies and actionable subsidies, and the response is that countries can enact various tariffs against incoming goods. It's a whole mess of international relations. The idea is that companies compete globally on a level playing field to produce products for the global market. This is imperfect, of course, but that is the goal.
- johnea 2y ago
  Its certainly a mess 8-/ These restrictions are basically being used to prevent access to affordable EVs in the US. After every major US car company has received major subsidies, including total economic bail outs, over the decades, this all seems extremely disingenuous.