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> I'm going to have to disagree with this one. My friends in HR said the number of inter-employee problems went way, way up during COVID remote work. *reported

by samtho 2y ago

> I'm going to have to disagree with this one. My friends in HR said the number of inter-employee problems went way, way up during COVID remote work. *reported It could be that people felt more empowered to report incidents, but the reality is probably just that the nature of harassment has changed and is just different from how it was like in-person.

Aurornis 2y ago
> It could be that people felt more empowered to report incidents, Or it could be that the number of incidents actually just went way up? I don't understand why everyone tries to inject alternate explanations to wave away inconvenient situations.
- squigz 2y ago
  The point is both are reasonable explanations, and without further data, it's hard to say with certainty it's one or the other.
  - Aurornis 2y ago
    Dismissing uncomfortable things becomes so much easier when you can make up an alternate explanation (without any knowledge of the details) and declare them both equally likely.
    - squigz 2y ago
      Nobody's trying to dismiss them. If they're not equally likely, I'm sure you'll have no problem demonstrating that?
      - Aurornis 2y ago
        > Nobody's trying to dismiss them The parent commenter was absolutely trying to dismiss the core of the story by injecting an alternate reality into it. > If they're not equally likely, I'm sure you'll have no problem demonstrating that? The situation I'm referring to was not a simple reporting change. It involved employees quitting over bullying, and in one case there were issues severe enough that law enforcement became involved. So, not, it was not a simple case of people reporting things differently. These problems did not exist pre-WFH at this company. But if you're dead set on finding ways to reject this and substitute your own reality, I suspect even this won't convince you.
        squigz 2y ago
        > But if you're dead set on finding ways to reject this and substitute your own reality, I suspect even this won't convince you. I really don't know why you're so aggressive. You did not include the context in your original comment that you did with this one, and so someone put forward a very reasonable explanation as to why reports may have went up.
        ipaddr 2y ago
        And this is caused by wfh and doesn't happen at the office is the point you are making? We must stop wfh and that will reduce bullying? I don't think you can generalize that to other companies or even other departments at your company.
        mchanson 2y ago
        I think you just don't come off very convincing.
- Swizec 2y ago
  It’s a lot easier to report a problem when you have screenshots. Will HR do anything about a handsy VP in a he-said-she-said situation? Maybe. Will they do anything when you send them screenshots of a VP’s icky chats? You bet.
  - RcouF1uZ4gsC 2y ago
    > Will HR do anything about a handsy VP in a he-said-she-said situation? Maybe Actually, they will likely transfer the woman or otherwise screw over her career to protect the handy VP.
- samtho 2y ago
  This discussion started with a hypothesis based on a second hand anecdote. For all we know, it could be worse. Given the fact that a lot us have trouble separating work and home when we work remotely, maybe there is more pressure to let coworkers in that space more.
- newsclues 2y ago
  Because we fit facts to our preconceived notions

by samtho 2y ago

Aurornis 2y ago

> It could be that people felt more empowered to report incidents, Or it could be that the number of incidents actually just went way up? I don't understand why everyone tries to inject alternate explanations to wave away inconvenient situations.

squigz 2y ago
The point is both are reasonable explanations, and without further data, it's hard to say with certainty it's one or the other.
- Aurornis 2y ago
  Dismissing uncomfortable things becomes so much easier when you can make up an alternate explanation (without any knowledge of the details) and declare them both equally likely.
  - squigz 2y ago
    Nobody's trying to dismiss them. If they're not equally likely, I'm sure you'll have no problem demonstrating that?
    - Aurornis 2y ago
      > Nobody's trying to dismiss them The parent commenter was absolutely trying to dismiss the core of the story by injecting an alternate reality into it. > If they're not equally likely, I'm sure you'll have no problem demonstrating that? The situation I'm referring to was not a simple reporting change. It involved employees quitting over bullying, and in one case there were issues severe enough that law enforcement became involved. So, not, it was not a simple case of people reporting things differently. These problems did not exist pre-WFH at this company. But if you're dead set on finding ways to reject this and substitute your own reality, I suspect even this won't convince you.
      - squigz 2y ago
        > But if you're dead set on finding ways to reject this and substitute your own reality, I suspect even this won't convince you. I really don't know why you're so aggressive. You did not include the context in your original comment that you did with this one, and so someone put forward a very reasonable explanation as to why reports may have went up.
      - ipaddr 2y ago
        And this is caused by wfh and doesn't happen at the office is the point you are making? We must stop wfh and that will reduce bullying? I don't think you can generalize that to other companies or even other departments at your company.
      - mchanson 2y ago
        I think you just don't come off very convincing.
Swizec 2y ago
It’s a lot easier to report a problem when you have screenshots. Will HR do anything about a handsy VP in a he-said-she-said situation? Maybe. Will they do anything when you send them screenshots of a VP’s icky chats? You bet.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 2y ago
  > Will HR do anything about a handsy VP in a he-said-she-said situation? Maybe Actually, they will likely transfer the woman or otherwise screw over her career to protect the handy VP.
samtho 2y ago
This discussion started with a hypothesis based on a second hand anecdote. For all we know, it could be worse. Given the fact that a lot us have trouble separating work and home when we work remotely, maybe there is more pressure to let coworkers in that space more.
newsclues 2y ago
Because we fit facts to our preconceived notions