4 ms·

I'm not sure if taking e.g. Paxlovid as pre-exposure prophylaxis has been studied, but my guess is that the side effects from the drug are worse in the long run

I'm not sure if taking e.g. Paxlovid as pre-exposure prophylaxis has been studied, but my guess is that the side effects from the drug are worse in the long run than the disease itself (especially if the seriousness can be blunted via vaccination). Since people don't spontaneously recover from HIV infection, and the PrEP drugs have relatively few side-effects, the tradeoff is more favorable.

ds_opseeker 2y ago
In the long run, the side effect of HIV is death due to total collapse of the immune system.
worstspotgain 2y ago
Turns out you can do Covid PrEP with just Neosporin in your nose. It works for other pathogens too: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2319566121 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2319566121 In case you're wondering, this paper is 100% legit, see e.g. the bio for the big-shot author: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akiko_Iwasaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akiko_Iwasaki No clue if this easy trick would induce immune escape if a large number of people started using it. I guess it's a good time to get in on the ground floor.
- youainti 2y ago
  To be a little more precise: 1. "Prophylactic or therapeutic administration of neomycin provided significant protection against upper respiratory infection and lethal disease in a mouse model of COVID-19." 2. "Furthermore, neomycin treatment protected Mx1 congenic mice from upper and lower respiratory infections with a highly virulent strain of influenza A virus. " 3. "In Syrian hamsters, neomycin treatment potently mitigated contact transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)." 4. "In healthy humans, intranasal application of neomycin-containing Neosporin ointment was well tolerated and effective at inducing ISG expression in the nose in a subset of participants." The mechanism appears to be that Neosporin triggers an ISG[1] (immune) response? Not a biologist etc, but the results showing that it prevents transmission is only in rodent models, and then showing that a similar biomarker shows up in (some of) the participants and the rodent models. They authors say: > "These findings suggest that neomycin has the potential to be harnessed as a host-directed antiviral strategy for the prevention and treatment of respiratory viral infections." [1]
  - worstspotgain 2y ago
    Still early in the research, to be sure. Here's the human clinical study: https://classic.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05449392 https://classic.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05449392 Here's Eric Topol's chat with Iwasaki discussing the finding. Topol's blog may well be the best source for Covid research out there: https://erictopol.substack.com/p/akiko-iwasaki-the-immunology-of-covid https://erictopol.substack.com/p/akiko-iwasaki-the-immunolog...
- aardvark92 2y ago
  This paper gets ripped into in my favorite podcast, TWiV (This Week in Virology)! Essentially, yes, neomycin in the nose, if timed perfectly, can activate the innate immune system, but en mass this practice would cause the spread of antibiotic resistance. Link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-week-in-virology/id300973784?i=1000654495789 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-week-in-virology/...
  - worstspotgain 2y ago
    If it turned out to work great in practice and people started using it en masse, the benefits would greatly outweigh the costs IMO, particularly if it snuffed out Covid and/or the flu. If it ends up being a niche thing, I doubt it would bite into the resistance numbers. Besides, we're already spiraling down the resistance chasm with antibacterial soaps, stuffing cattle with antibiotics, overprescribing, and so on.
- Auracle 2y ago
  You don’t even need that. Carrageenan works: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8493111/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8493111/ Obviously it’s not stimulating the immune system but it works as an antiviral barrier. I’ve been using it since I read that study and I’ve avoid 2 of my daughter’s colds since (and still got 3). That might not sound impressive but I have a terrible immune system and haven’t avoided a cold from someone I’ve had close exposure to in as long as I can remember. That said, I might need to add some Neosporin to my mixture when she comes home with her nose running.
  - resoluteteeth 2y ago
    Do you buy a premade nasal spray with carrageenan or make your own somehow?
    - Auracle 2y ago
      I make my own. There's at least one product out there but it's something like $20 a bottle and you can make it for pennies. Here's a recipe: For 150ml of (distilled) water: 1.35g of salt 1.8g of iota carrageenan A drop of polysorbate 20 Heat up the water to close to boiling, add those things, shake it up, and there you go. Note: That was supposed to be in line with the product that was tested, but I've found adding more water makes it come out of the nose spray bottle thing better. It's still pretty thick, just not a complete gel. Perhaps there's another type of spray bottle that would be better.

ds_opseeker 2y ago

In the long run, the side effect of HIV is death due to total collapse of the immune system.

worstspotgain 2y ago

Turns out you can do Covid PrEP with just Neosporin in your nose. It works for other pathogens too: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2319566121 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2319566121 In case you're wondering, this paper is 100% legit, see e.g. the bio for the big-shot author: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akiko_Iwasaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akiko_Iwasaki No clue if this easy trick would induce immune escape if a large number of people started using it. I guess it's a good time to get in on the ground floor.

youainti 2y ago
To be a little more precise: 1. "Prophylactic or therapeutic administration of neomycin provided significant protection against upper respiratory infection and lethal disease in a mouse model of COVID-19." 2. "Furthermore, neomycin treatment protected Mx1 congenic mice from upper and lower respiratory infections with a highly virulent strain of influenza A virus. " 3. "In Syrian hamsters, neomycin treatment potently mitigated contact transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)." 4. "In healthy humans, intranasal application of neomycin-containing Neosporin ointment was well tolerated and effective at inducing ISG expression in the nose in a subset of participants." The mechanism appears to be that Neosporin triggers an ISG[1] (immune) response? Not a biologist etc, but the results showing that it prevents transmission is only in rodent models, and then showing that a similar biomarker shows up in (some of) the participants and the rodent models. They authors say: > "These findings suggest that neomycin has the potential to be harnessed as a host-directed antiviral strategy for the prevention and treatment of respiratory viral infections." [1]
- worstspotgain 2y ago
  Still early in the research, to be sure. Here's the human clinical study: https://classic.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05449392 https://classic.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05449392 Here's Eric Topol's chat with Iwasaki discussing the finding. Topol's blog may well be the best source for Covid research out there: https://erictopol.substack.com/p/akiko-iwasaki-the-immunology-of-covid https://erictopol.substack.com/p/akiko-iwasaki-the-immunolog...
aardvark92 2y ago
This paper gets ripped into in my favorite podcast, TWiV (This Week in Virology)! Essentially, yes, neomycin in the nose, if timed perfectly, can activate the innate immune system, but en mass this practice would cause the spread of antibiotic resistance. Link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-week-in-virology/id300973784?i=1000654495789 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-week-in-virology/...
- worstspotgain 2y ago
  If it turned out to work great in practice and people started using it en masse, the benefits would greatly outweigh the costs IMO, particularly if it snuffed out Covid and/or the flu. If it ends up being a niche thing, I doubt it would bite into the resistance numbers. Besides, we're already spiraling down the resistance chasm with antibacterial soaps, stuffing cattle with antibiotics, overprescribing, and so on.
Auracle 2y ago
You don’t even need that. Carrageenan works: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8493111/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8493111/ Obviously it’s not stimulating the immune system but it works as an antiviral barrier. I’ve been using it since I read that study and I’ve avoid 2 of my daughter’s colds since (and still got 3). That might not sound impressive but I have a terrible immune system and haven’t avoided a cold from someone I’ve had close exposure to in as long as I can remember. That said, I might need to add some Neosporin to my mixture when she comes home with her nose running.
- resoluteteeth 2y ago
  Do you buy a premade nasal spray with carrageenan or make your own somehow?
  - Auracle 2y ago
    I make my own. There's at least one product out there but it's something like $20 a bottle and you can make it for pennies. Here's a recipe: For 150ml of (distilled) water: 1.35g of salt 1.8g of iota carrageenan A drop of polysorbate 20 Heat up the water to close to boiling, add those things, shake it up, and there you go. Note: That was supposed to be in line with the product that was tested, but I've found adding more water makes it come out of the nose spray bottle thing better. It's still pretty thick, just not a complete gel. Perhaps there's another type of spray bottle that would be better.