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One way to look at this is that some conditions are less of a disability than they used to be. In the same way that medical advances can make some diseases cura

One way to look at this is that some conditions are less of a disability than they used to be. In the same way that medical advances can make some diseases curable or inconsequential so social changes can also make a disease irrelevant. This is an important lesson, as it should alert us that there likely are other ways our society operates that make a disease into an impediment that could be changed. If you want to know what they are, go talk to disabled rights advocates!

wizzwizz4 2y ago
https://www.scope.org.uk/social-model-of-disability https://www.scope.org.uk/social-model-of-disability > The model says that people are disabled by barriers in society, not by their impairment or difference. Barriers can be physical, like buildings not having accessible toilets. Or they can be caused by people's attitudes to difference, like assuming disabled people can't do certain things. > The social model helps us recognise barriers that make life harder for disabled people. Removing these barriers creates equality and offers disabled people more independence, choice and control. > Not everyone uses the social model and that’s ok. How anyone chooses to talk about their impairment is up to them.
- squigz 2y ago
  I'm not trying to deny there are plenty of barriers for disabled people in society, and we should certainly try to reduce them... but I think even in an ideal society, being, for example, blind, or deaf, would still be very difficult. I think pretending that it's all about how society reacts to us is ignoring the reality of disabled people's lives. (I'm disabled myself, in case it matters)
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > even in an ideal society, being, for example, blind, or deaf, would still be very difficult Correct. The technological model OP posited would involve technologies that let blind and deaf folks navigate the world. The social model hits a barrier at that point.
  - wizzwizz4 2y ago
    That's why we have the disability / impairment distinction. Many impairments don't have to be disabilities. Some are, inherently. I'd argue that deafness can be completely mitigated by societal improvements, for most purposes except birdsong etc. and certain genres of music. Blindness is more difficult (e.g. vision is useful for navigation, and we can't choose the surfaces in a forest to make echolocation easier), but in principle computer technology can help with that. (I'd say a decent automated audio description is still a hundred years out, but we'll only get it if we make progress.) Certain mental impairments (e.g. some depression, some sensory issues) have no known mitigations, even in theory, so remain disabilities in all circumstances.
    - squigz 2y ago
      You're focusing on mechanical issues and ignoring social issues. You mention birdsong, and certain genres of music... what about your partner's voice? Your child's laugh?
      - wizzwizz4 2y ago
        I count those in the same category as birdsong. You can see, and/or feel, laughter. There's an equivalent to "voice" in every mode of communication I'm aware of (speech, sign, romantic chess, oil-on-canvas…). There's the inherent disability of not being able to access those modes of sensory experience (and I'm not belittling anybody's desire to experience them who can't) but the social impact of the impairment is incidental and avoidable. Perhaps these things are culturally significant, above and beyond their inherent social value, but that isn't intrinsic or necessary.
  - Doxin 2y ago
    Sure, but then there's other conditions that for a lot of people are basically entirely social. E.g. ADHD. Having a fulfilling life with ADHD is pretty easy. Holding down a job to pay for that life less so.

wizzwizz4 2y ago

https://www.scope.org.uk/social-model-of-disability https://www.scope.org.uk/social-model-of-disability > The model says that people are disabled by barriers in society, not by their impairment or difference. Barriers can be physical, like buildings not having accessible toilets. Or they can be caused by people's attitudes to difference, like assuming disabled people can't do certain things. > The social model helps us recognise barriers that make life harder for disabled people. Removing these barriers creates equality and offers disabled people more independence, choice and control. > Not everyone uses the social model and that’s ok. How anyone chooses to talk about their impairment is up to them.

squigz 2y ago
I'm not trying to deny there are plenty of barriers for disabled people in society, and we should certainly try to reduce them... but I think even in an ideal society, being, for example, blind, or deaf, would still be very difficult. I think pretending that it's all about how society reacts to us is ignoring the reality of disabled people's lives. (I'm disabled myself, in case it matters)
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > even in an ideal society, being, for example, blind, or deaf, would still be very difficult Correct. The technological model OP posited would involve technologies that let blind and deaf folks navigate the world. The social model hits a barrier at that point.
- wizzwizz4 2y ago
  That's why we have the disability / impairment distinction. Many impairments don't have to be disabilities. Some are, inherently. I'd argue that deafness can be completely mitigated by societal improvements, for most purposes except birdsong etc. and certain genres of music. Blindness is more difficult (e.g. vision is useful for navigation, and we can't choose the surfaces in a forest to make echolocation easier), but in principle computer technology can help with that. (I'd say a decent automated audio description is still a hundred years out, but we'll only get it if we make progress.) Certain mental impairments (e.g. some depression, some sensory issues) have no known mitigations, even in theory, so remain disabilities in all circumstances.
  - squigz 2y ago
    You're focusing on mechanical issues and ignoring social issues. You mention birdsong, and certain genres of music... what about your partner's voice? Your child's laugh?
    - wizzwizz4 2y ago
      I count those in the same category as birdsong. You can see, and/or feel, laughter. There's an equivalent to "voice" in every mode of communication I'm aware of (speech, sign, romantic chess, oil-on-canvas…). There's the inherent disability of not being able to access those modes of sensory experience (and I'm not belittling anybody's desire to experience them who can't) but the social impact of the impairment is incidental and avoidable. Perhaps these things are culturally significant, above and beyond their inherent social value, but that isn't intrinsic or necessary.
- Doxin 2y ago
  Sure, but then there's other conditions that for a lot of people are basically entirely social. E.g. ADHD. Having a fulfilling life with ADHD is pretty easy. Holding down a job to pay for that life less so.