6 ms·

What does banning tiktok even look like? I assume I can just download the apk, or will I need to VPN somewhere as well?

chme 2y ago
I guess that TikTok will be forced to deny connections and app stores will be forced to blacklist the app from any IP addresses from the US or they get sued. Central blocking on DNS side etc. is unlikely.
- hipadev23 2y ago
  It's a Chinese company, why would they care about the US trying to sue them? The US will need to block, remove, and sanction.
  - chme 2y ago
    There are many options, all depends on how important it is for the US. Freezing assets, diplomatic options, ...
  - glimshe 2y ago
    Which the US can do. Being "in the US" means that they take in dollars from US sources. To take dollars from US sources, they will have to work with US institutions, which will all banned from working with them. Sure, they could accept money from people in US through Bitcoin, but I don't think they business would be exactly viable if that's their payment model.
    - hipadev23 2y ago
      Absolutely. My point was the US trying to "sue" a Chinese company is an utterly pointless endeavor.
      - glimshe 2y ago
        Well, it's suing its US incarnation, which should be some sort of LLC or Corporation. The US can certainly get rid of that, which will both significantly defund the Chinese company and eliminate its US presence (and vastly reduce the data collection of US sources which is in theory the motivation for this whole story).
  - filoleg 2y ago
    > It's a Chinese company, why would they care about the US trying to sue them? If they had no physical, legal, and financial presence in the US, then sure, it would be somewhat impossible to sue them. However, TikTok is registered as a legal business entity in the US, they have employees in the US working for that business entity, they have physical properties (that they likely lease) where said employees work, and they have money going through their US accounts. In the TikTok scenario specifically, it makes perfect sense to me why and how the US would sue them.
    - mech422 2y ago
      I would assume that would all go away if they get banned, which brings you back to hard to sue them?
      - filoleg 2y ago
        I would assume yes, but it will all depend on how that corporate wind-down would go down. And I have zero idea how that goes, because it isn’t like TikTok assets and corporate liabilities just go poof overnight in the US on the day of the ban. They gotta be winded down somehow, and I am afraid that level of detail is significantly above my paygrade. Also, I am not even sure that this applies here, as I couldnt even find anything about the US government suing TikTok. All I could find was that TikTok is the one that filed with the US courts to fight the bill that is getting them banned, i.e., they are the ones actually suing the US government[0]. 0. https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2024-05-15/tiktok-creators-sue-u-s-government-in-a-bid-to-stop-potential-ban https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/20...
sambull 2y ago
Great firewall of USA?
Alupis 2y ago
The most likely, and most effective way would be to prohibit US businesses from conducting business with TikTok, it's subsidiaries and affiliates. Similar to economic sanctions. Being removed from US App Marketplaces (Apple, Android, Microsoft, Amazon, etc), forbidden from doing business with US Advertising companies (Google, etc), forbidden from Banking in the US, and forbidden from working with US technology/hosting/cloud companies - TikTok rots and eventually becomes untenable to operate within the US.
- rickydroll 2y ago
  Alternatively, build a transparent TikTok clone with a socially positive algorithm for presenting content. I'd start an algorithm focused on tolerating all views except when that view would damage or destroy tolerance. I like to think that an open system like this would outcompete the PRC propaganda machine.
  - GreatLdisisp88 2y ago
    This is something many parents in ky community should have been done for YT and Meta too. We also feel American CIA is spying via this American propaganda machines. In fact to date I am still waiting for proof of such thing with TikTok as I have already seen proof of such with Meta and YT.
- archagon 2y ago
  If TikTok is truly an agent of the CCP as the US government claims, then they could just run their web service for free. No need to do business in the US at all.
gpm 2y ago
The act of congress that became law doing this is Division H of this bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/815 https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/815 (ctrl-f "DIVISION H" to find the relevant text) It's not long, to quote it omitting definitions, enforcement mechanisms, timelines, and appeals process (which are also not long and I encourage you to read if you have questions as to the details): > (Sec. 2) This division prohibits distributing, maintaining, updating, or providing internet hosting services for a foreign adversary controlled application (e.g., TikTok). However, the prohibition does not apply to a covered application that executes a qualified divestiture as determined by the President. > Additionally, the division requires a covered foreign adversary controlled application to provide a user with all available account data (including posts, photos, and videos) at the user's request before the prohibition takes effect. The account data must be provided in a machine-readable format. So yeah, if tiktok makes an apk available on a non-us server it looks like you should just need to download and install it (assuming the bill goes into affect and bytedance doesn't divest/the courts don't stop it). It's not a particularly broad ban, nor does it seem like it needs to be to be effective.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- nashashmi 2y ago
  Looks like an app that is labeled TikTok US would suffice. And this app would recommend videos from TikTok (or any other service). And this would show ads too.

chme 2y ago

I guess that TikTok will be forced to deny connections and app stores will be forced to blacklist the app from any IP addresses from the US or they get sued. Central blocking on DNS side etc. is unlikely.

hipadev23 2y ago
It's a Chinese company, why would they care about the US trying to sue them? The US will need to block, remove, and sanction.
- chme 2y ago
  There are many options, all depends on how important it is for the US. Freezing assets, diplomatic options, ...
- glimshe 2y ago
  Which the US can do. Being "in the US" means that they take in dollars from US sources. To take dollars from US sources, they will have to work with US institutions, which will all banned from working with them. Sure, they could accept money from people in US through Bitcoin, but I don't think they business would be exactly viable if that's their payment model.
  - hipadev23 2y ago
    Absolutely. My point was the US trying to "sue" a Chinese company is an utterly pointless endeavor.
    - glimshe 2y ago
      Well, it's suing its US incarnation, which should be some sort of LLC or Corporation. The US can certainly get rid of that, which will both significantly defund the Chinese company and eliminate its US presence (and vastly reduce the data collection of US sources which is in theory the motivation for this whole story).
- filoleg 2y ago
  > It's a Chinese company, why would they care about the US trying to sue them? If they had no physical, legal, and financial presence in the US, then sure, it would be somewhat impossible to sue them. However, TikTok is registered as a legal business entity in the US, they have employees in the US working for that business entity, they have physical properties (that they likely lease) where said employees work, and they have money going through their US accounts. In the TikTok scenario specifically, it makes perfect sense to me why and how the US would sue them.
  - mech422 2y ago
    I would assume that would all go away if they get banned, which brings you back to hard to sue them?
    - filoleg 2y ago
      I would assume yes, but it will all depend on how that corporate wind-down would go down. And I have zero idea how that goes, because it isn’t like TikTok assets and corporate liabilities just go poof overnight in the US on the day of the ban. They gotta be winded down somehow, and I am afraid that level of detail is significantly above my paygrade. Also, I am not even sure that this applies here, as I couldnt even find anything about the US government suing TikTok. All I could find was that TikTok is the one that filed with the US courts to fight the bill that is getting them banned, i.e., they are the ones actually suing the US government[0]. 0. https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2024-05-15/tiktok-creators-sue-u-s-government-in-a-bid-to-stop-potential-ban https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/20...

sambull 2y ago

Great firewall of USA?

Alupis 2y ago

The most likely, and most effective way would be to prohibit US businesses from conducting business with TikTok, it's subsidiaries and affiliates. Similar to economic sanctions. Being removed from US App Marketplaces (Apple, Android, Microsoft, Amazon, etc), forbidden from doing business with US Advertising companies (Google, etc), forbidden from Banking in the US, and forbidden from working with US technology/hosting/cloud companies - TikTok rots and eventually becomes untenable to operate within the US.

rickydroll 2y ago
Alternatively, build a transparent TikTok clone with a socially positive algorithm for presenting content. I'd start an algorithm focused on tolerating all views except when that view would damage or destroy tolerance. I like to think that an open system like this would outcompete the PRC propaganda machine.
- GreatLdisisp88 2y ago
  This is something many parents in ky community should have been done for YT and Meta too. We also feel American CIA is spying via this American propaganda machines. In fact to date I am still waiting for proof of such thing with TikTok as I have already seen proof of such with Meta and YT.
archagon 2y ago
If TikTok is truly an agent of the CCP as the US government claims, then they could just run their web service for free. No need to do business in the US at all.

gpm 2y ago

The act of congress that became law doing this is Division H of this bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/815 https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/815 (ctrl-f "DIVISION H" to find the relevant text) It's not long, to quote it omitting definitions, enforcement mechanisms, timelines, and appeals process (which are also not long and I encourage you to read if you have questions as to the details): > (Sec. 2) This division prohibits distributing, maintaining, updating, or providing internet hosting services for a foreign adversary controlled application (e.g., TikTok). However, the prohibition does not apply to a covered application that executes a qualified divestiture as determined by the President. > Additionally, the division requires a covered foreign adversary controlled application to provide a user with all available account data (including posts, photos, and videos) at the user's request before the prohibition takes effect. The account data must be provided in a machine-readable format. So yeah, if tiktok makes an apk available on a non-us server it looks like you should just need to download and install it (assuming the bill goes into affect and bytedance doesn't divest/the courts don't stop it). It's not a particularly broad ban, nor does it seem like it needs to be to be effective.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
nashashmi 2y ago
Looks like an app that is labeled TikTok US would suffice. And this app would recommend videos from TikTok (or any other service). And this would show ads too.