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Islam is extremely important to Tajik identity. But Tajikistan is making the same mistake many other Muslim dictatorships and authocracies did. By not having a

by rvense 2y ago

Islam is extremely important to Tajik identity. But Tajikistan is making the same mistake many other Muslim dictatorships and authocracies did. By not having a real open political system, the only place for dissent to take root is in Islamist circles, and then that's the opposition you get.

slt2021 2y ago
Tajikistan had civil war in 1990s where Islamist radicals were the opposition and wanted to turn TJ into sharia run state. open political system actually makes islam opposition stronger (and easy to influence with $$$ from Gulf monarchies). Keeping islam in check, also means keeping in check Gulf oil $$$$ that install their own version of islam. the pipeline of volunteers from *stans to join ISIS/Al-Qaeda was funded and enabled by Gulf monarchies. If there is another big war in the Middle East - guess from where all the islamist volunteer fighters will be coming from - from these poor 3rd world islamist countries, the *stan countries
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  > open political system actually makes islam opposition stronger (and easy to influence with $$$ from Gulf monarchies). No it doesn't. Provide one example where this has happened?
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    Russia. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Khattab https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Khattab
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      [flagged]
  - slt2021 2y ago
    i lived there, gulf monarchies are financing construction of mosques all over the *stans, and are sending people to "study islam" in ... Pakistan and Bangladesh, where they are radicalized and brainwashed. various conflicts in Causasus in russia - where caucasians were bankrolled and brainwashed via gulf money (dagestan and chechnya)
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      Are you replying to the wrong comment? I asked for one example where an open political system led to radical Islamists cementing power
      - slt2021 2y ago
        Afghanistan was relatively open during US and USSR occupations, still radical islamists prevailed. Iran during Shah times was relatively open politically, although it was monarchy. Egypt before the brotherhood took over. Turkey was relatively sectarian, but with Erdogan it became more and more islamist. Iraq after occupation was relatively open, yet ISIS ideology took off
        aprilthird2021 2y ago
        The USSR was brutal autocracy. Us military occupation was also brutal and not free. Iran was a brutal autocracy. Egypt was a brutal military dictatorship. Turkey is a great example, tbh. The level of radicals and terrorism there is far less than anything else we've described because it has open democracy. If anything, the big terrorists in Turkey are separatists which every nation, even European ones, has to fight. Iraq after brutal military occupation? All of what you're talking about about are scenarios where brutal authoritarianism led to extremists gaining popularity because they are an excellent alternative to brutal one-man repression of an entire people.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        2y ago
  - golergka 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      Gaza/Israel is not an open political system. They are subjects and born in a state that doesn't grant them the rights of people equally subject to and born in the same area. My entire point was that closed political systems embolden radicals, Gaza makes that point extremely well. When you have zero chance of having a say in the government that controls all your borders, any and all food allowed into your area, any and all job prospects you have, etc. that's fertile ground for radicals. If Israel were a democracy (e.g. open political system) instead of having the majority of its subjects unable to vote or move freely within the land, it's obvious there would be no Hamas.
      - golergka 2y ago
        Citizens of Gaza are not citizens neither subjects of Israel. Israeli citizens vote on Israeli elections, PA citizens vote on PA elections and Gaza citizens vote on Gaza elections. Israel doesn't occupy Gaza and doesn't control all the borders either — that's Israel and Egypt. And both of these countries decided to close borders and install maritime blockade only after Hamas stated indiscriminate attacks against civilians, which happened after it came to power.
        aprilthird2021 2y ago
        They are not citizens (Israel considers them stateless) but they are subject to Israeli law and rule at every turn. Nothing can go into or out of Gaza, not even food, not even collected rainwater, without Israeli permission. The point is, it's as closed a political system as it gets. No matter what the polity does, their situation cannot change because they have no rights in the government that controls their lives (Israel)
        golergka 2y ago
        [flagged]
  - admissionsguy 2y ago
    Egypt before the latest coup?
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      Egypt had been a brutal autocracy for years which led to the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood and just when democracy finally peaked its head out, bam, back to brutal military dictatorship. You may not believe in democracy, but I do. Democracies lead to progress in nations and balance in political systems around the world. Closed political systems lead to the rise of revolutionaries and in the Muslim world those are Islamic and often extreme

by rvense 2y ago

slt2021 2y ago

Tajikistan had civil war in 1990s where Islamist radicals were the opposition and wanted to turn TJ into sharia run state. open political system actually makes islam opposition stronger (and easy to influence with $$$ from Gulf monarchies). Keeping islam in check, also means keeping in check Gulf oil $$$$ that install their own version of islam. the pipeline of volunteers from *stans to join ISIS/Al-Qaeda was funded and enabled by Gulf monarchies. If there is another big war in the Middle East - guess from where all the islamist volunteer fighters will be coming from - from these poor 3rd world islamist countries, the *stan countries

aprilthird2021 2y ago
> open political system actually makes islam opposition stronger (and easy to influence with $$$ from Gulf monarchies). No it doesn't. Provide one example where this has happened?
- protomolecule 2y ago
  Russia. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Khattab https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Khattab
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    [flagged]
- slt2021 2y ago
  i lived there, gulf monarchies are financing construction of mosques all over the *stans, and are sending people to "study islam" in ... Pakistan and Bangladesh, where they are radicalized and brainwashed. various conflicts in Causasus in russia - where caucasians were bankrolled and brainwashed via gulf money (dagestan and chechnya)
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    Are you replying to the wrong comment? I asked for one example where an open political system led to radical Islamists cementing power
    - slt2021 2y ago
      Afghanistan was relatively open during US and USSR occupations, still radical islamists prevailed. Iran during Shah times was relatively open politically, although it was monarchy. Egypt before the brotherhood took over. Turkey was relatively sectarian, but with Erdogan it became more and more islamist. Iraq after occupation was relatively open, yet ISIS ideology took off
      - aprilthird2021 2y ago
        The USSR was brutal autocracy. Us military occupation was also brutal and not free. Iran was a brutal autocracy. Egypt was a brutal military dictatorship. Turkey is a great example, tbh. The level of radicals and terrorism there is far less than anything else we've described because it has open democracy. If anything, the big terrorists in Turkey are separatists which every nation, even European ones, has to fight. Iraq after brutal military occupation? All of what you're talking about about are scenarios where brutal authoritarianism led to extremists gaining popularity because they are an excellent alternative to brutal one-man repression of an entire people.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        2y ago
- golergka 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    Gaza/Israel is not an open political system. They are subjects and born in a state that doesn't grant them the rights of people equally subject to and born in the same area. My entire point was that closed political systems embolden radicals, Gaza makes that point extremely well. When you have zero chance of having a say in the government that controls all your borders, any and all food allowed into your area, any and all job prospects you have, etc. that's fertile ground for radicals. If Israel were a democracy (e.g. open political system) instead of having the majority of its subjects unable to vote or move freely within the land, it's obvious there would be no Hamas.
    - golergka 2y ago
      Citizens of Gaza are not citizens neither subjects of Israel. Israeli citizens vote on Israeli elections, PA citizens vote on PA elections and Gaza citizens vote on Gaza elections. Israel doesn't occupy Gaza and doesn't control all the borders either — that's Israel and Egypt. And both of these countries decided to close borders and install maritime blockade only after Hamas stated indiscriminate attacks against civilians, which happened after it came to power.
      - aprilthird2021 2y ago
        They are not citizens (Israel considers them stateless) but they are subject to Israeli law and rule at every turn. Nothing can go into or out of Gaza, not even food, not even collected rainwater, without Israeli permission. The point is, it's as closed a political system as it gets. No matter what the polity does, their situation cannot change because they have no rights in the government that controls their lives (Israel)
        golergka 2y ago
        [flagged]
- admissionsguy 2y ago
  Egypt before the latest coup?
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    Egypt had been a brutal autocracy for years which led to the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood and just when democracy finally peaked its head out, bam, back to brutal military dictatorship. You may not believe in democracy, but I do. Democracies lead to progress in nations and balance in political systems around the world. Closed political systems lead to the rise of revolutionaries and in the Muslim world those are Islamic and often extreme