4 ms·

Great. I hope they torpedo that thing out of spite and no one gets to use the stupid e-heroin algorithm.

999900000999 2y ago
As far as I'm concerned, I don't like the government telling me which type of propaganda I can consume . If I want Chinese propaganda, I should have a right to consume it. There's nothing that TikTok does that Instagram or even YouTube isn't trying to replicate . I think this is really just a case of protectionism. Now you can make the argument that China engages in the same protectionism and if they're not letting us spread propaganda over there, we shouldn't let them do the same here . But I used to believe that a fundamental trait of American speech was freedom. I don't care if TikTok is literally 24/7 Pro Chinese propaganda. Who was the government to tell me I don't have a right to consume that.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- WCSTombs 2y ago
  I think the real concern is not protectionism per se, but the ability of China to run influence operations through TikTok (as you hinted at), which to be fair is a real concern. However, "banning" TikTok is pretty shortsighted and isn't even addressing the real problem. I would ask how we got to a place where so many Americans are susceptible to propaganda. This is coming at it from a different angle (kids' mental health), but it's still a move in the right direction: https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/17/media/surgeon-general-social-media-apps-warning-label/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/17/media/surgeon-general-social-... It doesn't restrict anybody's freedom, but people who didn't give it much thought before may start putting social media into the "questionable" bucket, and those who were already wary may start putting it into the "bad" bucket. At that point it will be much easier to have a real conversation about harms associated with social media. But if that effort goes anywhere, it will take a long time.
  - 999900000999 2y ago
    If you're going to ban TikTok for health reasons, you just need to ban social media. There's no way to argue that Facebook and Instagram are healthy. The notion that China is going to run pysops via TikTok also falls flat, Facebook has already been responsible for human right violations in multiple countries. Why don't we fix our own propaganda factories first . The only thing that I think would be okay would be a warning label on these apps, and this should go for all social media. "Please be advised the views expressed by users on these apps may not be authentic, and are subject to influence by various parties which may not have your best interest at heart." But at the end of the day, if you want to read or consume propaganda or misinformation you should have a right to. Otherwise we're going down a slippery slope, so first it's because TikTok is a Chinese owned company. What's next, are we going to shut down an app because C level employees have close relationships with officials in governments we don't like ? If you have a Russian uncle you can't be the CTO of Facebook?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- cscurmudgeon 2y ago
  Unlike China and social media, the US is not restricting individuals from consuming TikTok. The restrictions are on platform providers and TikTok in the form of regulations.
  - 999900000999 2y ago
    So the government isn't banning me from buying books, but they'll go to the book store and remove all the books they don't like.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- jnaina 2y ago
  You still retain the ability to load the APK and use the app, even if ByteDance withdraws from the US market. What ByteDance should not be able to do is profiteering and monetising while aiding and abetting pro-Chinese propaganda on their platform.
pelagicAustral 2y ago
What about Facebook, Instagram, et al? They're all copying the same model with reels and the like... The only winner here are the rest of the American social media, brain-dead, depressive youth factories.
- bigtex88 2y ago
  I don't think it's necessarily bad for the US government to prioritize US propaganda over Chinese propaganda. It's basic game theory. The Chinese will use their power to try to influence US citizens. I trust the government of the United States far more than I trust the government of China. Ban the hell out of this idiotic app. It will not only be good for national security but also for the national psyche.
moralestapia 2y ago
I'm neither against nor in favor of TikTok but the e-heroin addiction problem is not on them.
WCSTombs 2y ago
In the United States, the government acting to protect citizens from themselves is generally not a good strategy and goes pretty strongly against the grain of the culture. We can agree or disagree on whether that's good (and for the record, I don't see that as the government's job), but I think it's hard to deny that cultural reality that stands today.
kody 2y ago
Yeah, on principle I don't support banning a media channel like this. But an immature part of me wants the ban to be enforced so I don't have to deal with insufferable personalities of TikTok addicts any more.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't like the government telling me which type of propaganda I can consume . If I want Chinese propaganda, I should have a right to consume it. There's nothing that TikTok does that Instagram or even YouTube isn't trying to replicate . I think this is really just a case of protectionism. Now you can make the argument that China engages in the same protectionism and if they're not letting us spread propaganda over there, we shouldn't let them do the same here . But I used to believe that a fundamental trait of American speech was freedom. I don't care if TikTok is literally 24/7 Pro Chinese propaganda. Who was the government to tell me I don't have a right to consume that.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
WCSTombs 2y ago
I think the real concern is not protectionism per se, but the ability of China to run influence operations through TikTok (as you hinted at), which to be fair is a real concern. However, "banning" TikTok is pretty shortsighted and isn't even addressing the real problem. I would ask how we got to a place where so many Americans are susceptible to propaganda. This is coming at it from a different angle (kids' mental health), but it's still a move in the right direction: https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/17/media/surgeon-general-social-media-apps-warning-label/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/17/media/surgeon-general-social-... It doesn't restrict anybody's freedom, but people who didn't give it much thought before may start putting social media into the "questionable" bucket, and those who were already wary may start putting it into the "bad" bucket. At that point it will be much easier to have a real conversation about harms associated with social media. But if that effort goes anywhere, it will take a long time.
- 999900000999 2y ago
  If you're going to ban TikTok for health reasons, you just need to ban social media. There's no way to argue that Facebook and Instagram are healthy. The notion that China is going to run pysops via TikTok also falls flat, Facebook has already been responsible for human right violations in multiple countries. Why don't we fix our own propaganda factories first . The only thing that I think would be okay would be a warning label on these apps, and this should go for all social media. "Please be advised the views expressed by users on these apps may not be authentic, and are subject to influence by various parties which may not have your best interest at heart." But at the end of the day, if you want to read or consume propaganda or misinformation you should have a right to. Otherwise we're going down a slippery slope, so first it's because TikTok is a Chinese owned company. What's next, are we going to shut down an app because C level employees have close relationships with officials in governments we don't like ? If you have a Russian uncle you can't be the CTO of Facebook?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cscurmudgeon 2y ago
Unlike China and social media, the US is not restricting individuals from consuming TikTok. The restrictions are on platform providers and TikTok in the form of regulations.
- 999900000999 2y ago
  So the government isn't banning me from buying books, but they'll go to the book store and remove all the books they don't like.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
jnaina 2y ago
You still retain the ability to load the APK and use the app, even if ByteDance withdraws from the US market. What ByteDance should not be able to do is profiteering and monetising while aiding and abetting pro-Chinese propaganda on their platform.

pelagicAustral 2y ago

What about Facebook, Instagram, et al? They're all copying the same model with reels and the like... The only winner here are the rest of the American social media, brain-dead, depressive youth factories.

bigtex88 2y ago
I don't think it's necessarily bad for the US government to prioritize US propaganda over Chinese propaganda. It's basic game theory. The Chinese will use their power to try to influence US citizens. I trust the government of the United States far more than I trust the government of China. Ban the hell out of this idiotic app. It will not only be good for national security but also for the national psyche.

moralestapia 2y ago

I'm neither against nor in favor of TikTok but the e-heroin addiction problem is not on them.

WCSTombs 2y ago

In the United States, the government acting to protect citizens from themselves is generally not a good strategy and goes pretty strongly against the grain of the culture. We can agree or disagree on whether that's good (and for the record, I don't see that as the government's job), but I think it's hard to deny that cultural reality that stands today.

kody 2y ago

Yeah, on principle I don't support banning a media channel like this. But an immature part of me wants the ban to be enforced so I don't have to deal with insufferable personalities of TikTok addicts any more.