4 ms·

Use any of the free versions. There is no reason to download Java from Oracle.

repelsteeltje 2y ago
Maybe Oracle downloads ought to be blocklisted the same way known malware is. (Speaking as an ex-Oracle employee) There is no good reason to ever consider buying into Oracle, except when you're already their customer; in which case... Good luck.
- Someone1234 2y ago
  If I was a CTO at a mid to large company, that has no business relationship to Oracle, I'd absolutely order the Oracle domains to be blackholed. The liability is simply too high. One employee downloads something and suddenly you need to license every seat in the Org. That's a crazy risk to take.
hocuspocus 2y ago
I agree there's usually no reason not to download a 3rd party OpenJDK distribution, as it's often easier. But there are plenty of valid use cases for Oracle GraalVM, and I haven't diff'ed the GFTC and NFTC licenses, but I believe their terms are essentially similar.
- onli 2y ago
  Oracle trumps use cases. That is why GraalVM never was a valid option.
- cess11 2y ago
  If you want to sell the output from Graal you must get a payed license. Kotlin/Native might be an alternative if that doesn't fit your needs.
  - hocuspocus 2y ago
    I don't think that's a concern for the vast majority of people using Java on the backend.
  - kaba0 2y ago
    That’s not true.
cageface 2y ago
Or better still just dump the whole ecosystem altogether. There are good alternatives.
- cess11 2y ago
  The only thing that comes close is .NET, and that's MICROS~1. On the timescales in my business that's not an option, they can't be trusted to not act like Oracle does and they are deeply ingrained into important libraries in that "ecosystem". Rumour has it that there is some PDF/A capable library for .NET, but I would have to put in quite some time to figure out if it is low level enough for the control I need and whether there are additional libraries suited for layout and typography. Since I might have to ditch it within five years, that's not an option. Some people claim .NET developer ergonomics on Linux are fine now, but those I know personally that tells me this are using VSCode, which I consider a rather shoddy piece of software. Am I going to take the time and see if it's the case? Fiddle around with IntelliJ plugins and try to setup a LSP for vim and whatnot? Nope, I won't, because there is no revenue in that, and I might suddenly have to do the great rewrite several times at once further down the line. Maven is a turd, but a very solid one when you've figured out the XML incantation you need. I'm not sure what the alternatives are in .NET-land, or whether I can feel that I trust that they will work fine in ten years, like fifteen year old Maven projects tend to do. GraalVM allows me to output neat executables too. Java has Wildfly. What's the equivalent in .NET? Running a MICROS~1 Windows Server with IIS? That's not an option. And so on and so on.
  - stackskipton 2y ago
    For developing .Net (Core) on Linux? Rider is your best option from JetBrains. Most development still happens on Windows though because Visual Studio is best option if running Linux Desktop is most important thing for you. However running it? .Net runs on both Windows and Linux with performance generally being much better on Linux. .Net Team IME also recommends Linux as well unless you are doing some Windows only things. Web Server? .Net comes with built in cross platform Web Server called Kestrel which is pretty darn performant so most people just run Kestrel and proxy it with something like Nginx/Caddy though it's not required. After dealing with both companies, if you put a gun to my head and said "Oracle or Microsoft?" Microsoft hands down. Both are licensing nightmares but Microsoft has never come close to hostage taking behavior that Oracle has. Don't even get me started on Oracle Database Core license requirements in virtual environments. MSSQL never went that bad.

Maybe Oracle downloads ought to be blocklisted the same way known malware is. (Speaking as an ex-Oracle employee) There is no good reason to ever consider buying into Oracle, except when you're already their customer; in which case... Good luck.

Someone1234 2y ago
If I was a CTO at a mid to large company, that has no business relationship to Oracle, I'd absolutely order the Oracle domains to be blackholed. The liability is simply too high. One employee downloads something and suddenly you need to license every seat in the Org. That's a crazy risk to take.

hocuspocus 2y ago

I agree there's usually no reason not to download a 3rd party OpenJDK distribution, as it's often easier. But there are plenty of valid use cases for Oracle GraalVM, and I haven't diff'ed the GFTC and NFTC licenses, but I believe their terms are essentially similar.

onli 2y ago
Oracle trumps use cases. That is why GraalVM never was a valid option.
cess11 2y ago
If you want to sell the output from Graal you must get a payed license. Kotlin/Native might be an alternative if that doesn't fit your needs.
- hocuspocus 2y ago
  I don't think that's a concern for the vast majority of people using Java on the backend.
- kaba0 2y ago
  That’s not true.

cageface 2y ago

Or better still just dump the whole ecosystem altogether. There are good alternatives.

cess11 2y ago
The only thing that comes close is .NET, and that's MICROS~1. On the timescales in my business that's not an option, they can't be trusted to not act like Oracle does and they are deeply ingrained into important libraries in that "ecosystem". Rumour has it that there is some PDF/A capable library for .NET, but I would have to put in quite some time to figure out if it is low level enough for the control I need and whether there are additional libraries suited for layout and typography. Since I might have to ditch it within five years, that's not an option. Some people claim .NET developer ergonomics on Linux are fine now, but those I know personally that tells me this are using VSCode, which I consider a rather shoddy piece of software. Am I going to take the time and see if it's the case? Fiddle around with IntelliJ plugins and try to setup a LSP for vim and whatnot? Nope, I won't, because there is no revenue in that, and I might suddenly have to do the great rewrite several times at once further down the line. Maven is a turd, but a very solid one when you've figured out the XML incantation you need. I'm not sure what the alternatives are in .NET-land, or whether I can feel that I trust that they will work fine in ten years, like fifteen year old Maven projects tend to do. GraalVM allows me to output neat executables too. Java has Wildfly. What's the equivalent in .NET? Running a MICROS~1 Windows Server with IIS? That's not an option. And so on and so on.
- stackskipton 2y ago
  For developing .Net (Core) on Linux? Rider is your best option from JetBrains. Most development still happens on Windows though because Visual Studio is best option if running Linux Desktop is most important thing for you. However running it? .Net runs on both Windows and Linux with performance generally being much better on Linux. .Net Team IME also recommends Linux as well unless you are doing some Windows only things. Web Server? .Net comes with built in cross platform Web Server called Kestrel which is pretty darn performant so most people just run Kestrel and proxy it with something like Nginx/Caddy though it's not required. After dealing with both companies, if you put a gun to my head and said "Oracle or Microsoft?" Microsoft hands down. Both are licensing nightmares but Microsoft has never come close to hostage taking behavior that Oracle has. Don't even get me started on Oracle Database Core license requirements in virtual environments. MSSQL never went that bad.