5 ms·

I haven't read enough about how the OpenAI integration but it has me thinking I won't be upgrading to the latest iOS or macOS. OpenAI just really feels too untr

I haven't read enough about how the OpenAI integration but it has me thinking I won't be upgrading to the latest iOS or macOS. OpenAI just really feels too untrustworthy for me. Like in two or three years it'll be revealed that everyone's information really is being used for their models, they'll get a $40M fine and continue on.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> how the OpenAI integration FTFA: “For queries that require more horsepower, users will be offered the option to outsource a task via the cloud to ChatGPT.” > it'll be revealed that everyone's information really is being used for their models, they'll get a $40M fine and continue on You think Apple would accept that sort of breach of contract for $40mm?
- wasteduniverse 2y ago
  Yes.
- lancesells 2y ago
  I'm not sure Apple would know. edit: I meant OpenAI gets the fine.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    Apple wouldn’t know but OpenAI gets fined and Apple still doesn’t know? Who is issuing these secret fines?
karaterobot 2y ago
Yep. The unfolding OpenAI heel turn is clear to anyone watching, as is Apple's declining ability meet the expectations set by its own marketing. If you move your finger along those trend lines and find where they intersect, you'll get a glimpse of the future of this product. I guess the counterargument is "but it'll be different this time"?
tracerbulletx 2y ago
The OpenAI integration is almost exactly the same thing as the current Siri integration with Wikipedia. It has nothing to do with "horsepower" or "your data". It's literally a plugin for getting info like how do I make a cherry pie, or write me a sonnet, that Apple's models aren't trained to be good at. And it's called from apple's side with no identifying information and just the query to get the encyclopedia style information. There is so much misinformation about this.
- quitit 2y ago
  > There is so much misinformation about this. I honestly find that more interesting than the announcement. This feature and how it is implemented has been very clearly and very widely promoted in non-technical, no-jargon language. It is trivial to find out the correct information. One of the main pieces of false information is that some people think Apple's AI is implemented like this: On-device processing for a limited set of tasks + Off-device Processing by OpenAI. That's false, and this falsehood is also implied by The New Yorker's article. The actual system is more like this: On-device processing + Apple's own Private Cloud Compute for off device processing of larger models + optional OpenAI for special OpenAI specific requests. Those OpenAI requests function as you've already described, with the extra step of also requiring the user to specifically consent to using OpenAI every single time (while also showing the user exactly what will be sent to OpenAI), plus a few steps in between to ensure the user is anonymous from the query. As mentioned already this information isn't hard to find out. One could learn it unambiguously from any of the apple news releases¹, WWDC talks, or their original Keynote. Yet the majority of discourse here is false information, followed by wrong assumptions that stretch into conspiracy theories. I find this to be such an important lesson in going to the source. See also: AdObE aRe StEalInG uR aRtwOrK fOr Ai TrAiNing. (Adobe are basketful of questionable activities and perhaps also deceptive² things, but they're not doing this and the that information is also readily available.) ¹ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/06/apple-extends-its-privacy-leadership-with-new-updates-across-its-platforms/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/06/apple-extends-its-pri... ² https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/06/ftc-takes-action-against-adobe-executives-hiding-fees-preventing-consumers-easily-cancelling https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/06/...

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> how the OpenAI integration FTFA: “For queries that require more horsepower, users will be offered the option to outsource a task via the cloud to ChatGPT.” > it'll be revealed that everyone's information really is being used for their models, they'll get a $40M fine and continue on You think Apple would accept that sort of breach of contract for $40mm?

wasteduniverse 2y ago
Yes.
lancesells 2y ago
I'm not sure Apple would know. edit: I meant OpenAI gets the fine.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  Apple wouldn’t know but OpenAI gets fined and Apple still doesn’t know? Who is issuing these secret fines?

karaterobot 2y ago

Yep. The unfolding OpenAI heel turn is clear to anyone watching, as is Apple's declining ability meet the expectations set by its own marketing. If you move your finger along those trend lines and find where they intersect, you'll get a glimpse of the future of this product. I guess the counterargument is "but it'll be different this time"?

tracerbulletx 2y ago

The OpenAI integration is almost exactly the same thing as the current Siri integration with Wikipedia. It has nothing to do with "horsepower" or "your data". It's literally a plugin for getting info like how do I make a cherry pie, or write me a sonnet, that Apple's models aren't trained to be good at. And it's called from apple's side with no identifying information and just the query to get the encyclopedia style information. There is so much misinformation about this.

quitit 2y ago
> There is so much misinformation about this. I honestly find that more interesting than the announcement. This feature and how it is implemented has been very clearly and very widely promoted in non-technical, no-jargon language. It is trivial to find out the correct information. One of the main pieces of false information is that some people think Apple's AI is implemented like this: On-device processing for a limited set of tasks + Off-device Processing by OpenAI. That's false, and this falsehood is also implied by The New Yorker's article. The actual system is more like this: On-device processing + Apple's own Private Cloud Compute for off device processing of larger models + optional OpenAI for special OpenAI specific requests. Those OpenAI requests function as you've already described, with the extra step of also requiring the user to specifically consent to using OpenAI every single time (while also showing the user exactly what will be sent to OpenAI), plus a few steps in between to ensure the user is anonymous from the query. As mentioned already this information isn't hard to find out. One could learn it unambiguously from any of the apple news releases¹, WWDC talks, or their original Keynote. Yet the majority of discourse here is false information, followed by wrong assumptions that stretch into conspiracy theories. I find this to be such an important lesson in going to the source. See also: AdObE aRe StEalInG uR aRtwOrK fOr Ai TrAiNing. (Adobe are basketful of questionable activities and perhaps also deceptive² things, but they're not doing this and the that information is also readily available.) ¹ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/06/apple-extends-its-privacy-leadership-with-new-updates-across-its-platforms/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/06/apple-extends-its-pri... ² https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/06/ftc-takes-action-against-adobe-executives-hiding-fees-preventing-consumers-easily-cancelling https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/06/...