5 ms·

> Our (individual) absolute capabilities or our (collective) absolute capabilities? Both, though the two are necessarily and intimately intermingled, and more

> Our (individual) absolute capabilities or our (collective) absolute capabilities? Both, though the two are necessarily and intimately intermingled, and more so every day (except for exceptions, like for example if the United States government is successful in putting down TikTok, because {silly lies that easily fool child-like, conditioned since birth minds}). I'm thinking of it from a possible worlds perspective, so "capabilities" gets a bit complex due to ~multidimensional & temporal dependencies, but hopefully you get my drift. I hope The Normies are enjoying our "word salad". ;)

082349872349872 2y ago
If I get your drift, I think a precondition is that we need to figure out a way to keep the Bartle Taxonomy Killers (♣) happy just playing power-{possession/craving} games with each other, instead of feeling the need to drag everyone else into the Sith spirit; compare https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40019115 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40019115
- mistermann 2y ago
  If I get your drift, I agree. > instead of feeling the need to drag everyone else into the Sith spirit You may like: https://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win https://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win (Note: I have some disagreements with that here and there in the context we're discussing.)
  - vinnyvichy 2y ago
    Alright seeing that I have to do some major unrelated symbol-pushing in the toplevel today... I might have to take a few days to process what has been said here. I know folks do not mind, but thought a heads-up would be in order. Praying to the gods of HN to keep this thread alive )* EDIT: the delvings into ancient "Taoist" texts, I would do so myself, if I didn't feel that my models have been heavily polluted by god-knows-what. Those conspiracy theories are very compelling. Maybe a search for the actual battle records of 姜子牙 is in order)[0] *As a Procrustist or Protist lol [0] https://m.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_24715199 https://m.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_24715199 says (likely CCP propaganda, but sometimes fun to read) 史记 should be the first cache to look up. (The rest of that has mostly been quoted to me, but I iterate to motivate mistermann's possible context updates) "鸷鸟将击，卑飞敛翼；猛兽将搏，弭耳俯伏；圣人将动，必有愚色。”
    - mistermann 2y ago
      > but sometimes fun to read Assuming my Google translate is working well enough, indeed. HN is perhaps not the optimal venue for such conversations, though I have no suggestions of where to take it. Any ideas?
      - 082349872349872 2y ago
        I enjoy scurrying about in the wainscoting of HN, perhaps because of, not despite, its ferrocrete and stainless steel suboptimality? 三十辐共一毂，当其无，有车之用。埏埴以为器，当其无，有器之用。凿户牖以为室，当其无，有室之用。 30 stories and their hot takes exist on HN's front page, yet the stories with no traction function to carry leisurely conversation. 故有之以为利，无之以为用。
        vinnyvichy 2y ago
        I concur that HN is a liminal superspace whose character is slippery and so fit for rummagings in the murk, dang is a Taoist best sovereign whose existence is only dimly felt*, etc etc but all I really want to for now is to uh serialize something bothering me since mistermann replied.. quite localized to procrustean-physicism... maybe physicists are hedgehogs who imagine themselves foxes, but then it occurred to me that it might be true that most non-French non-logician mathematicians tend to stay away from wider sociopolitical commentary (unless prodded) I can think of reasons, but some implications are clear? 1. Kolmogorov thought of himself as more of a mathematician than a physicist. 2. Arnol'd was heavily frenchified, but had to rationalize that. (In particular, his students didn't inherit his attitudes?) 3. Galois was pretty normal. 4. Grothendieck was special but found a way to resolve the inner and outer (cultural) game. 5. Kaczynski.. too much of a logician? (Dare I suggest he was special XD?) Back to scheduled programming, over and out. *Preceding Jefferson, Spinoza, etc https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E9%81%93%E5%BE%B7%E7%BB%8F%C2%B7%E5%A4%AA%E4%B8%8A%EF%BC%8C%E4%B8%8D%E7%9F%A5%E6%9C%89%E4%B9%8B/7637601 https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E9%81%93%E5%BE%B7%E7%BB%8F%C2%...
        vinnyvichy 2y ago
        *second best, for by Chapter58/spinozoan formalization PG** was the creator..and thus worthier of being 太上 "You are what you symbolicate" **https://youtu.be/EEwPXdbKG8U https://youtu.be/EEwPXdbKG8U Oops, let's not get distracted.. EDIT: according to later commentators this is a popular misreading, but in this case the masses were correct? https://www.aisixiang.com/data/117662.html https://www.aisixiang.com/data/117662.html
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    On Sirlin and 読み, compare https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40397874 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40397874 Thanks especially for his take on self-balancing forces (with relation to Guilty Gear).
    - vinnyvichy 2y ago
      My sub-half-hour but supra-half-min take is that official non-sanctioning of bugs/exploits might be the interesting protomechanism to impede the evolution of granfalloony (vs karasserai) System II & System I shades to be explored when cycles freed, but my basic thesis is that the bug discoverer/onlookers are trained to quickly direct reflexivity towards in-game rewards rather than towards tribal/purity considerations? Post-mannichean millinery? EDIT: which fencing weapon is most conducive to a healthy democracy? System I)(II take: sabre > epee > foil https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12650-018-0521-3 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12650-018-0521-3 Possible measurement: look up rule-type-evolution rate
      - 082349872349872 2y ago
        (again I lack access) > Unlike sequential games, such as tennis and table tennis, fencing is a type of simultaneous game. One way to turn fencing sequential is to view "initiative" as the equivalent of a ball: generally either one player or the other will have possession at any given time. (given enough distance, then neither has the initiative, just like how in a field sports it's possible for neither to have possession) The analogy falls down because fencing is more symmetric: losing possession of the ball near the goal you're attacking isn't bad compared to losing it near the goal you're defending, but in fencing losing initiative when you've nearly completed an attack, when distance has collapsed, is much worse than losing it near the start of an attack. (explaining why in both épée and kendō stronger players invite attacks) Unfortunately determining who has initiative from the outside requires experience — and as the invited attack shows, it's very possible to believe you have initiative when you're actually being shaped by your opponent. (the latter explaining why a king might wish to just "face south" and let all the ambitious people of the kingdom focus on modelling and exploiting his ministers instead of him)

082349872349872 2y ago

If I get your drift, I think a precondition is that we need to figure out a way to keep the Bartle Taxonomy Killers (♣) happy just playing power-{possession/craving} games with each other, instead of feeling the need to drag everyone else into the Sith spirit; compare https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40019115 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40019115

mistermann 2y ago
If I get your drift, I agree. > instead of feeling the need to drag everyone else into the Sith spirit You may like: https://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win https://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win (Note: I have some disagreements with that here and there in the context we're discussing.)
- vinnyvichy 2y ago
  Alright seeing that I have to do some major unrelated symbol-pushing in the toplevel today... I might have to take a few days to process what has been said here. I know folks do not mind, but thought a heads-up would be in order. Praying to the gods of HN to keep this thread alive )* EDIT: the delvings into ancient "Taoist" texts, I would do so myself, if I didn't feel that my models have been heavily polluted by god-knows-what. Those conspiracy theories are very compelling. Maybe a search for the actual battle records of 姜子牙 is in order)[0] *As a Procrustist or Protist lol [0] https://m.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_24715199 https://m.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_24715199 says (likely CCP propaganda, but sometimes fun to read) 史记 should be the first cache to look up. (The rest of that has mostly been quoted to me, but I iterate to motivate mistermann's possible context updates) "鸷鸟将击，卑飞敛翼；猛兽将搏，弭耳俯伏；圣人将动，必有愚色。”
  - mistermann 2y ago
    > but sometimes fun to read Assuming my Google translate is working well enough, indeed. HN is perhaps not the optimal venue for such conversations, though I have no suggestions of where to take it. Any ideas?
    - 082349872349872 2y ago
      I enjoy scurrying about in the wainscoting of HN, perhaps because of, not despite, its ferrocrete and stainless steel suboptimality? 三十辐共一毂，当其无，有车之用。埏埴以为器，当其无，有器之用。凿户牖以为室，当其无，有室之用。 30 stories and their hot takes exist on HN's front page, yet the stories with no traction function to carry leisurely conversation. 故有之以为利，无之以为用。
      - vinnyvichy 2y ago
        I concur that HN is a liminal superspace whose character is slippery and so fit for rummagings in the murk, dang is a Taoist best sovereign whose existence is only dimly felt*, etc etc but all I really want to for now is to uh serialize something bothering me since mistermann replied.. quite localized to procrustean-physicism... maybe physicists are hedgehogs who imagine themselves foxes, but then it occurred to me that it might be true that most non-French non-logician mathematicians tend to stay away from wider sociopolitical commentary (unless prodded) I can think of reasons, but some implications are clear? 1. Kolmogorov thought of himself as more of a mathematician than a physicist. 2. Arnol'd was heavily frenchified, but had to rationalize that. (In particular, his students didn't inherit his attitudes?) 3. Galois was pretty normal. 4. Grothendieck was special but found a way to resolve the inner and outer (cultural) game. 5. Kaczynski.. too much of a logician? (Dare I suggest he was special XD?) Back to scheduled programming, over and out. *Preceding Jefferson, Spinoza, etc https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E9%81%93%E5%BE%B7%E7%BB%8F%C2%B7%E5%A4%AA%E4%B8%8A%EF%BC%8C%E4%B8%8D%E7%9F%A5%E6%9C%89%E4%B9%8B/7637601 https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E9%81%93%E5%BE%B7%E7%BB%8F%C2%...
        vinnyvichy 2y ago
        *second best, for by Chapter58/spinozoan formalization PG** was the creator..and thus worthier of being 太上 "You are what you symbolicate" **https://youtu.be/EEwPXdbKG8U https://youtu.be/EEwPXdbKG8U Oops, let's not get distracted.. EDIT: according to later commentators this is a popular misreading, but in this case the masses were correct? https://www.aisixiang.com/data/117662.html https://www.aisixiang.com/data/117662.html
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  On Sirlin and 読み, compare https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40397874 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40397874 Thanks especially for his take on self-balancing forces (with relation to Guilty Gear).
  - vinnyvichy 2y ago
    My sub-half-hour but supra-half-min take is that official non-sanctioning of bugs/exploits might be the interesting protomechanism to impede the evolution of granfalloony (vs karasserai) System II & System I shades to be explored when cycles freed, but my basic thesis is that the bug discoverer/onlookers are trained to quickly direct reflexivity towards in-game rewards rather than towards tribal/purity considerations? Post-mannichean millinery? EDIT: which fencing weapon is most conducive to a healthy democracy? System I)(II take: sabre > epee > foil https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12650-018-0521-3 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12650-018-0521-3 Possible measurement: look up rule-type-evolution rate
    - 082349872349872 2y ago
      (again I lack access) > Unlike sequential games, such as tennis and table tennis, fencing is a type of simultaneous game. One way to turn fencing sequential is to view "initiative" as the equivalent of a ball: generally either one player or the other will have possession at any given time. (given enough distance, then neither has the initiative, just like how in a field sports it's possible for neither to have possession) The analogy falls down because fencing is more symmetric: losing possession of the ball near the goal you're attacking isn't bad compared to losing it near the goal you're defending, but in fencing losing initiative when you've nearly completed an attack, when distance has collapsed, is much worse than losing it near the start of an attack. (explaining why in both épée and kendō stronger players invite attacks) Unfortunately determining who has initiative from the outside requires experience — and as the invited attack shows, it's very possible to believe you have initiative when you're actually being shaped by your opponent. (the latter explaining why a king might wish to just "face south" and let all the ambitious people of the kingdom focus on modelling and exploiting his ministers instead of him)