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It's a lot like AR before Vision Pro. The situation for the demo and reality didn't meet. I'm not trying to claim Vision Pro is perfect but it seems to do AR in

It's a lot like AR before Vision Pro. The situation for the demo and reality didn't meet. I'm not trying to claim Vision Pro is perfect but it seems to do AR in the real world without the circumstances needing to be absolutely ideal.

Animats 2y ago
The Vision Pro is not doing well. Apple has cancelled the next version.[1] As Carmack says, AR/VR will be a small niche until the headgear gets down to swim goggle size, and will not go mainstream until it gets down to eyeglass size. [1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/shopping/apple-shelves-new-model-of-vision-headset-as-sales-decline-report/ar-BB1oszvS https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/shopping/apple-shelves-n...
- numpad0 2y ago
  Apple approved ALVR few days ago too, clearly they're having issues at least wrt getting developer attention. 1: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/alvr/id6479728026 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/alvr/id6479728026
- namaria 2y ago
  I think both hardware and software in AR have to become unobtrusive for people to adopt it. And then it will be a specialized tool for stuff like maintenance. Keeping large amounts of information in context without requiring frequent changes in context. But I also think that the information overload will put a premium on non-AR time. Once it becomes a common work tool, people using it will be very keen to touch grass and watch clouds afterwards. I don't think it will ever become the mainstream everyday carry proponents want it to be. But only time will tell...
  - Turskarama 2y ago
    Until there is an interface for it that allows you to effectively touch type (or equivalent) then 99% of jobs won't be able to use it away from a desk anyway. Speech to text would be good enough for writing (non technical) documentation but probably not for things like filling spreadsheets or programming.
- addandsubtract 2y ago
  It was always the plan for Apple to release a cheaper version of the Vision Pro next. That the next version of the PRO has been postponed isn't a huge sign. It just seems that the technology isn't evolving quickly enough to warrant a new version any time soon.
- salad-tycoon 2y ago
  Your article states this differently. The development has not been canceled fully but re focused. “and now hopes to release a more standard headset with fewer abilities by the end of next year.
  - Animats 2y ago
    That's marketing-speak for "cancelled".
- Yizahi 2y ago
  Which it probably won't, because real life physics are not aware about roadmaps and corporate ads.
  - matthewdgreen 2y ago
    What physics are you talking about? Limits on power? Display? Sensor size? I ask because I’ve had similar feelings about things like high speed mobile Internet or mobile device screen size (over a couple of decades) and lived to see all my intuition blown away, so I really don’t believe in limits that don’t have explicit physical constraints behind them.
    - throwup238 2y ago
      Lens diffraction limits. VR needs lenses that are small and thin enough while still being powerful enough to bend the needed light towards the eyes. Modern lenses need more distance between the screen and the eyes and they’re quite thick. Theoretically future lenses may make it possible, but the visible light metamaterials needed are still very early research stage.
- falcor84 2y ago
  > swim google size The "Bigscreen Beyond" [0] is quite close, but doesn't have cameras - so at this stage it's only really good for watching movies and the like. [0] https://store.bigscreenvr.com/products/bigscreen-beyond https://store.bigscreenvr.com/products/bigscreen-beyond
  - numpad0 2y ago
    That one does have 6DoF tracking, it's just based on the Valve Lighthouse system. Upside of that system is it's more privacy respecting.
pbmonster 2y ago
But does what Apple has shown in its demos of the Vision Pro actually meet reality? Does it provide any value at all? In my eyes, it's exactly the same as AI. The demos work. You can play around with it, and its impressive for an hour. But there's just very little value.
- MrScruff 2y ago
  The value would come if it was something you would feel comfortable wearing all day. So it would need perfect pass through, be much much lighter and more comfortable. If they achieved that and can do multiple high resolution virtual displays then people would use it. The R&D required to get to that point is vast though.
  - pbmonster 2y ago
    > can do multiple high resolution virtual displays In most applications, it then would need to compete on price with multiple high resolution displays, and undercut them quite significantly to break the inertia of the old tech (and other various advantages - like not wearing something all day and being able to allow other people to look at what you have on your screen).
    - MrScruff 2y ago
      I take your point but living in a London flat I don't have the room for multiple high resolution displays. Nor are they very portable, I have a MBP rather than an iMac because mobility is important. I do think we're 4+ years until it gets to the 'iPhone 1' level of utility though, so we'll see how committed Apple are to it.
  - Yizahi 2y ago
    That's what all these companies are peddling though. The question is - do humans actually NEED a display before their eyes for all awake time? Or even most of it? Maybe, but today I have some doubts.
    - 2y ago
timeon 2y ago
It is not really AR. Reality is not just augmented but captured first with camera. It can make someone dizzy.
- yencabulator 2y ago
  It's the opposite of AR, it's VR augmented with real imagery.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Animats 2y ago

The Vision Pro is not doing well. Apple has cancelled the next version.[1] As Carmack says, AR/VR will be a small niche until the headgear gets down to swim goggle size, and will not go mainstream until it gets down to eyeglass size. [1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/shopping/apple-shelves-new-model-of-vision-headset-as-sales-decline-report/ar-BB1oszvS https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/shopping/apple-shelves-n...

numpad0 2y ago
Apple approved ALVR few days ago too, clearly they're having issues at least wrt getting developer attention. 1: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/alvr/id6479728026 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/alvr/id6479728026
namaria 2y ago
I think both hardware and software in AR have to become unobtrusive for people to adopt it. And then it will be a specialized tool for stuff like maintenance. Keeping large amounts of information in context without requiring frequent changes in context. But I also think that the information overload will put a premium on non-AR time. Once it becomes a common work tool, people using it will be very keen to touch grass and watch clouds afterwards. I don't think it will ever become the mainstream everyday carry proponents want it to be. But only time will tell...
- Turskarama 2y ago
  Until there is an interface for it that allows you to effectively touch type (or equivalent) then 99% of jobs won't be able to use it away from a desk anyway. Speech to text would be good enough for writing (non technical) documentation but probably not for things like filling spreadsheets or programming.
addandsubtract 2y ago
It was always the plan for Apple to release a cheaper version of the Vision Pro next. That the next version of the PRO has been postponed isn't a huge sign. It just seems that the technology isn't evolving quickly enough to warrant a new version any time soon.
salad-tycoon 2y ago
Your article states this differently. The development has not been canceled fully but re focused. “and now hopes to release a more standard headset with fewer abilities by the end of next year.
- Animats 2y ago
  That's marketing-speak for "cancelled".
Yizahi 2y ago
Which it probably won't, because real life physics are not aware about roadmaps and corporate ads.
- matthewdgreen 2y ago
  What physics are you talking about? Limits on power? Display? Sensor size? I ask because I’ve had similar feelings about things like high speed mobile Internet or mobile device screen size (over a couple of decades) and lived to see all my intuition blown away, so I really don’t believe in limits that don’t have explicit physical constraints behind them.
  - throwup238 2y ago
    Lens diffraction limits. VR needs lenses that are small and thin enough while still being powerful enough to bend the needed light towards the eyes. Modern lenses need more distance between the screen and the eyes and they’re quite thick. Theoretically future lenses may make it possible, but the visible light metamaterials needed are still very early research stage.
falcor84 2y ago
> swim google size The "Bigscreen Beyond" [0] is quite close, but doesn't have cameras - so at this stage it's only really good for watching movies and the like. [0] https://store.bigscreenvr.com/products/bigscreen-beyond https://store.bigscreenvr.com/products/bigscreen-beyond
- numpad0 2y ago
  That one does have 6DoF tracking, it's just based on the Valve Lighthouse system. Upside of that system is it's more privacy respecting.

pbmonster 2y ago

But does what Apple has shown in its demos of the Vision Pro actually meet reality? Does it provide any value at all? In my eyes, it's exactly the same as AI. The demos work. You can play around with it, and its impressive for an hour. But there's just very little value.

MrScruff 2y ago
The value would come if it was something you would feel comfortable wearing all day. So it would need perfect pass through, be much much lighter and more comfortable. If they achieved that and can do multiple high resolution virtual displays then people would use it. The R&D required to get to that point is vast though.
- pbmonster 2y ago
  > can do multiple high resolution virtual displays In most applications, it then would need to compete on price with multiple high resolution displays, and undercut them quite significantly to break the inertia of the old tech (and other various advantages - like not wearing something all day and being able to allow other people to look at what you have on your screen).
  - MrScruff 2y ago
    I take your point but living in a London flat I don't have the room for multiple high resolution displays. Nor are they very portable, I have a MBP rather than an iMac because mobility is important. I do think we're 4+ years until it gets to the 'iPhone 1' level of utility though, so we'll see how committed Apple are to it.
- Yizahi 2y ago
  That's what all these companies are peddling though. The question is - do humans actually NEED a display before their eyes for all awake time? Or even most of it? Maybe, but today I have some doubts.
  - 2y ago

timeon 2y ago

It is not really AR. Reality is not just augmented but captured first with camera. It can make someone dizzy.

yencabulator 2y ago
It's the opposite of AR, it's VR augmented with real imagery.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]