4 ms·

A 30-meter pass in the Pyrenees through which insects migrate

85 points by belter 2y ago

ggm 2y ago
I'll say the same thing here I said the other time this was posted inside the last 2 weeks: This is a very narrow ecological "corridor" which an accidental release of a nicotinoid pesticide could wreak havoc on. You would think under global warming there were more opportunistic passing places now.
- 6LLvveMx2koXfwn 2y ago
  However, he explains this pass is likely to be one of the many routes that insects follow to cross the mountains. “Insects are channeled through the steep mountain valleys and then through the hills, since they are much lower than the peaks,” says Hawkes. “There are probably many more passes, all with millions of insects migrating each fall.” Suggesting the Bujaruelo Pass is a good site, but hardly critical.
  - ggm 2y ago
    Aha.. I read it as somehow unique beyond its height, and so imprinted on the bugs as "the way" to go. If they have more then clearly this is not a bottleneck.
    - 6LLvveMx2koXfwn 2y ago
      It seems this site was picked primarily because an historical study was done at the same location in the 1950's.
  - kjkjadksj 2y ago
    There's a rail tunnel through the Pyrenees as of 2005. I wonder if insects have started routing through there as well as I assume the grade is smoother. Plenty of species use other connections we build like canals before long.
    - surfingdino 2y ago
      Foxes have discovered how to get to the garden above the Canary Wharf Underground station in the London Docklands, which is not an easy thing to do with water surrounding the Isle of Dogs from three sides and heavy traffic from the North.
nraynaud 2y ago
I was expecting it to be Roland’s Breach https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roland%27s_Breach https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roland%27s_Brea...
rob74 2y ago
Seeing that for passes the measurement generally given is their height, not their width, the title is a bit confusing (at least for me): the pass is at a height of 2,273 m, and it's 30 m wide.
- RamblingCTO 2y ago
  Why would you expect a pass in the pyrenees to be 30m in height? I don't think there's a single point that's that low
  - Piskvorrr 2y ago
    I have been expecting a range, in which there's a pass that's 30m in height below the average of the ridge: -----_--- (edit: apparently features like that exist, e.g. Roland's Breach)
madaxe_again 2y ago
It worries me seeing this publicised - all it takes is one unhappy farmer to hear a ninth hand version of this down the pub, and to decide that this is why his crop is failing, that it’s Spanish/French immigrant insects, and that he needs to go up there and spray them all, for the wellbeing of his country and nature. I mean, see sycamore gap. See all of it, all the time.
- pantulis 2y ago
  While the scenario seems plausible, I don't think it would be a farmer.
- retox 2y ago
  Ah yes, those famously irrational, illogical and xenophobic farmers. Idiots that they are, they barely keep us with the ability to throw away vast amounts of food while still becoming morbidly obese. Those bumpkins, those peasants, I bet they don't even know what a B-tree is.
  - madaxe_again 2y ago
    I live in farm country. I know a great many farmers. They know and love their land. They are also susceptible to propaganda and misinformation, and bad ideas spread virulently in a small and isolated population. Where I live, for instance, poor practices (up and down ploughing, use of pesticides, exclusive monocultures and no crop rotation) have resulted in awful topsoil depletion and dwindling yields - which is universally accepted to be the fault of Spain, as they “keep all of the water from the river behind dams” - never mind that a cursory inspection of the watercourse from space reveals precisely zero dams in Spain. They aren’t stupid people - but a general low level of education and a barren media sphere allows odd ideas to take hold, unchallenged.
    - broken-kebab 2y ago
      Everybody's susceptible to propaganda, including software developers, of course.
- 2y ago
wwilim 2y ago
So the pass must be running at 1500 FPS (flies per second)
- bsnsxd 2y ago
  If I was there I bet I would run like crysis or something
throwup238 2y ago
> Works that document joint migrations with very different species are rare. “This is because the small insects that migrate are usually invisible in an extensive landscape, requiring specialized equipment such as entomological radars or nets supported by balloons for their detection,” explains Hawkes. Hold up, there is a radar that detects bugs? Where can I get me one of those and why doesn’t every IDE come with one?
tristramb 2y ago
Online presentation from last year by Will Hawkes the lead author: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_alwE7b1do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_alwE7b1do

85 points by belter 2y ago

ggm 2y ago

I'll say the same thing here I said the other time this was posted inside the last 2 weeks: This is a very narrow ecological "corridor" which an accidental release of a nicotinoid pesticide could wreak havoc on. You would think under global warming there were more opportunistic passing places now.

6LLvveMx2koXfwn 2y ago
However, he explains this pass is likely to be one of the many routes that insects follow to cross the mountains. “Insects are channeled through the steep mountain valleys and then through the hills, since they are much lower than the peaks,” says Hawkes. “There are probably many more passes, all with millions of insects migrating each fall.” Suggesting the Bujaruelo Pass is a good site, but hardly critical.
- ggm 2y ago
  Aha.. I read it as somehow unique beyond its height, and so imprinted on the bugs as "the way" to go. If they have more then clearly this is not a bottleneck.
  - 6LLvveMx2koXfwn 2y ago
    It seems this site was picked primarily because an historical study was done at the same location in the 1950's.
- kjkjadksj 2y ago
  There's a rail tunnel through the Pyrenees as of 2005. I wonder if insects have started routing through there as well as I assume the grade is smoother. Plenty of species use other connections we build like canals before long.
  - surfingdino 2y ago
    Foxes have discovered how to get to the garden above the Canary Wharf Underground station in the London Docklands, which is not an easy thing to do with water surrounding the Isle of Dogs from three sides and heavy traffic from the North.

nraynaud 2y ago

I was expecting it to be Roland’s Breach https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roland%27s_Breach https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roland%27s_Brea...

rob74 2y ago

Seeing that for passes the measurement generally given is their height, not their width, the title is a bit confusing (at least for me): the pass is at a height of 2,273 m, and it's 30 m wide.

RamblingCTO 2y ago
Why would you expect a pass in the pyrenees to be 30m in height? I don't think there's a single point that's that low
- Piskvorrr 2y ago
  I have been expecting a range, in which there's a pass that's 30m in height below the average of the ridge: -----_--- (edit: apparently features like that exist, e.g. Roland's Breach)

madaxe_again 2y ago

It worries me seeing this publicised - all it takes is one unhappy farmer to hear a ninth hand version of this down the pub, and to decide that this is why his crop is failing, that it’s Spanish/French immigrant insects, and that he needs to go up there and spray them all, for the wellbeing of his country and nature. I mean, see sycamore gap. See all of it, all the time.

pantulis 2y ago
While the scenario seems plausible, I don't think it would be a farmer.
retox 2y ago
Ah yes, those famously irrational, illogical and xenophobic farmers. Idiots that they are, they barely keep us with the ability to throw away vast amounts of food while still becoming morbidly obese. Those bumpkins, those peasants, I bet they don't even know what a B-tree is.
- madaxe_again 2y ago
  I live in farm country. I know a great many farmers. They know and love their land. They are also susceptible to propaganda and misinformation, and bad ideas spread virulently in a small and isolated population. Where I live, for instance, poor practices (up and down ploughing, use of pesticides, exclusive monocultures and no crop rotation) have resulted in awful topsoil depletion and dwindling yields - which is universally accepted to be the fault of Spain, as they “keep all of the water from the river behind dams” - never mind that a cursory inspection of the watercourse from space reveals precisely zero dams in Spain. They aren’t stupid people - but a general low level of education and a barren media sphere allows odd ideas to take hold, unchallenged.
  - broken-kebab 2y ago
    Everybody's susceptible to propaganda, including software developers, of course.
2y ago

wwilim 2y ago

So the pass must be running at 1500 FPS (flies per second)

bsnsxd 2y ago
If I was there I bet I would run like crysis or something

throwup238 2y ago

> Works that document joint migrations with very different species are rare. “This is because the small insects that migrate are usually invisible in an extensive landscape, requiring specialized equipment such as entomological radars or nets supported by balloons for their detection,” explains Hawkes. Hold up, there is a radar that detects bugs? Where can I get me one of those and why doesn’t every IDE come with one?

tristramb 2y ago

Online presentation from last year by Will Hawkes the lead author: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_alwE7b1do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_alwE7b1do