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As someone that works in the crypto industry, I feel this every time I see the news or articles report on it, or comments here talking about it.

laji14 2y ago
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laji1471 2y ago
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kennyloginz 2y ago
Honestly curious, what is the benefit of blockchain outside of providing evidence in court?
- Gormo 2y ago
  A blockchain is a distributed public ledger of immutable information. The use cases for that seem clear and obvious: consider all repositories of public information that are either not distributed, and therfore subject to single points of failure, or allow extant data to be modified, and therefore subject to reliability and trust issues. Consider how blockchains might improve all such use cases.
  - bradly 2y ago
    > A blockchain is a distributed public ledger of immutable information. Is it immutable? Forks, 51% attacks, bugs. It it only immutable until consensus decides it isn't immutable, right? If something is immutable, but can be made immutable, is it ever really immutable?
  - anon-3988 2y ago
    You still have to trust whatever things you rely on upstreams, plus, if the consensus is against you, there's nothing you can do anyway? For example, you got scammed, its written to the ledger. The transaction is immutable and actually, actually did happen. What can you do now?
    - exoverito 2y ago
      Large cryptocurrency networks like Bitcoin are extremely hard to execute a 51% attack upon due to their size. Though ultimately there's no perfect solution. As the saying goes, democracy is 2 wolves and 1 sheep deciding on what's for dinner.
      - Jensson 2y ago
        But you can't use bitcoin or other blockchains with large cash flows as information storage at scale, since they use them to make transactions first and foremost and can't hold a lot of other data.
        oasisaimlessly 2y ago
        For many applications, it's possible to commit just a Merkle tree root hash to the blockchain and still get all the properties you care about, while only using O(1) blockchain storage.
    - hanniabu 2y ago
      Same thing happens when people get scammed in tradfi
    - detourdog 2y ago
      I take the above comment as addressing a use case for blockchain that isn't currency. The context I think they are proposing blockchain to be useful is in verifiable public information. For information to be verified or analyzed the blockchain can verify the source even offline.
      - Gormo 2y ago
        Exactly. E.g. decentralized DNS, title transfers to real property, etc. It's still extremely useful as currency as well, though, precisely because it actually is digital currency, and allows direct person-to-person transactions via the internet without requiring a proprietary middleman. The previous commenter's complaint about how it doesn't solve anything if you get scammed is a bit off-target, because dealing with frauds and scams isn't a feature inherent in the currency itself -- it applies equally to any payment solution, especially cash and checks -- and is something we deal with via the legal system regardless of how funds are transferred.
- exoverito 2y ago
  Blockchains facilitate trustless transactions enabling truly decentralized currencies not under the control of any government. Many people find this quite valuable, as evident by recent trends in authoritarian overreach, fiscal repression, and inflation. Privacy optimized cryptocurrencies like Monero also deal with the problem of their blockchain 'providing evidence in court.'
  - ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
    How can a currency exist without a state to insure it's value?
    - jimbob21 2y ago
      How can gold exist without a state to insure its value? Simple: demand.
      - RichardCA 2y ago
        The value of Gold is based on scarcity dictated by the laws of Physics, and on people believing it has value. The fascination with that yellow gleam goes as far back as recorded time. The fact that it's easy to work with (malleability, ductility, etc.) probably played a part as well. The value of Crypto products is based on scarcity dictated by the computationally intensive nature of certain algorithms, and on people believing those products have value.
        hanniabu 2y ago
        > dictated by the computationally intensive nature of certain algorithms You mean math?
      - ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
        Gold isn't a currency. Gold coins can be, but then you either have to trust the mint or you carry around a scale. The key is being fungible and it's the state that promises that a dollar bill is equal to any other dollar bill.
__loam 2y ago
It would help if there were not multimillion dollar hacks and scams weekly.
- hanniabu 2y ago
  There were a bunch of scams in the stock market before the SEC was established.
  - __loam 2y ago
    And here we are not having learned the lessons of the 30s apparently.
    - hanniabu 2y ago
      So you're saying the stock market should have never been a thing because when it started there were scams?
      - __loam 2y ago
        No I'm saying this is a frankly stupid argument to make. Crypto has almost a century of financial crimes, history, and policy to draw on. The fact that they're stepping on the same rakes despite them being labeled is a point against the entire sector. Anyone smart enough to build an alternative financial system is probably doing more legitimate work in the actual financial sector, leaving crypto to 29 year old geniuses who barely understand they're running ponzi schemes. You're arguing that we should try out this new, unregulated, and terrible alternative financial system that seems to only be filled with such trustworthy people as scam artists, terrorists, drug dealers, and war criminals because a system designed before computers existed sucked ass. Your audacity is shocking.
        throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
        ^ Here is irony happening real-time. A misinformed opinion about the entire crypto environment in a article titled "Nobody knows what's going on"
RichardCA 2y ago
> As someone that works in the crypto industry, I feel this every time I see the news or articles report on it, or comments here talking about it. It was the same way during the 90's Dot-Com era, journalists would explain the World Wide Web with word salad, e.g., the "Graphical portion of the Internet". With regard to Crypto, I decline to discuss it without mentioning the 3Blue1Brown video, sometimes the gambit works and triggers a better discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4 And I love the comments in that video about being "Confused, but on a higher level".

laji14 2y ago

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laji1471 2y ago

[dead]

kennyloginz 2y ago

Honestly curious, what is the benefit of blockchain outside of providing evidence in court?

Gormo 2y ago
A blockchain is a distributed public ledger of immutable information. The use cases for that seem clear and obvious: consider all repositories of public information that are either not distributed, and therfore subject to single points of failure, or allow extant data to be modified, and therefore subject to reliability and trust issues. Consider how blockchains might improve all such use cases.
- bradly 2y ago
  > A blockchain is a distributed public ledger of immutable information. Is it immutable? Forks, 51% attacks, bugs. It it only immutable until consensus decides it isn't immutable, right? If something is immutable, but can be made immutable, is it ever really immutable?
- anon-3988 2y ago
  You still have to trust whatever things you rely on upstreams, plus, if the consensus is against you, there's nothing you can do anyway? For example, you got scammed, its written to the ledger. The transaction is immutable and actually, actually did happen. What can you do now?
  - exoverito 2y ago
    Large cryptocurrency networks like Bitcoin are extremely hard to execute a 51% attack upon due to their size. Though ultimately there's no perfect solution. As the saying goes, democracy is 2 wolves and 1 sheep deciding on what's for dinner.
    - Jensson 2y ago
      But you can't use bitcoin or other blockchains with large cash flows as information storage at scale, since they use them to make transactions first and foremost and can't hold a lot of other data.
      - oasisaimlessly 2y ago
        For many applications, it's possible to commit just a Merkle tree root hash to the blockchain and still get all the properties you care about, while only using O(1) blockchain storage.
  - hanniabu 2y ago
    Same thing happens when people get scammed in tradfi
  - detourdog 2y ago
    I take the above comment as addressing a use case for blockchain that isn't currency. The context I think they are proposing blockchain to be useful is in verifiable public information. For information to be verified or analyzed the blockchain can verify the source even offline.
    - Gormo 2y ago
      Exactly. E.g. decentralized DNS, title transfers to real property, etc. It's still extremely useful as currency as well, though, precisely because it actually is digital currency, and allows direct person-to-person transactions via the internet without requiring a proprietary middleman. The previous commenter's complaint about how it doesn't solve anything if you get scammed is a bit off-target, because dealing with frauds and scams isn't a feature inherent in the currency itself -- it applies equally to any payment solution, especially cash and checks -- and is something we deal with via the legal system regardless of how funds are transferred.
exoverito 2y ago
Blockchains facilitate trustless transactions enabling truly decentralized currencies not under the control of any government. Many people find this quite valuable, as evident by recent trends in authoritarian overreach, fiscal repression, and inflation. Privacy optimized cryptocurrencies like Monero also deal with the problem of their blockchain 'providing evidence in court.'
- ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
  How can a currency exist without a state to insure it's value?
  - jimbob21 2y ago
    How can gold exist without a state to insure its value? Simple: demand.
    - RichardCA 2y ago
      The value of Gold is based on scarcity dictated by the laws of Physics, and on people believing it has value. The fascination with that yellow gleam goes as far back as recorded time. The fact that it's easy to work with (malleability, ductility, etc.) probably played a part as well. The value of Crypto products is based on scarcity dictated by the computationally intensive nature of certain algorithms, and on people believing those products have value.
      - hanniabu 2y ago
        > dictated by the computationally intensive nature of certain algorithms You mean math?
    - ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
      Gold isn't a currency. Gold coins can be, but then you either have to trust the mint or you carry around a scale. The key is being fungible and it's the state that promises that a dollar bill is equal to any other dollar bill.

__loam 2y ago

It would help if there were not multimillion dollar hacks and scams weekly.

hanniabu 2y ago
There were a bunch of scams in the stock market before the SEC was established.
- __loam 2y ago
  And here we are not having learned the lessons of the 30s apparently.
  - hanniabu 2y ago
    So you're saying the stock market should have never been a thing because when it started there were scams?
    - __loam 2y ago
      No I'm saying this is a frankly stupid argument to make. Crypto has almost a century of financial crimes, history, and policy to draw on. The fact that they're stepping on the same rakes despite them being labeled is a point against the entire sector. Anyone smart enough to build an alternative financial system is probably doing more legitimate work in the actual financial sector, leaving crypto to 29 year old geniuses who barely understand they're running ponzi schemes. You're arguing that we should try out this new, unregulated, and terrible alternative financial system that seems to only be filled with such trustworthy people as scam artists, terrorists, drug dealers, and war criminals because a system designed before computers existed sucked ass. Your audacity is shocking.
      - throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
        ^ Here is irony happening real-time. A misinformed opinion about the entire crypto environment in a article titled "Nobody knows what's going on"

RichardCA 2y ago

> As someone that works in the crypto industry, I feel this every time I see the news or articles report on it, or comments here talking about it. It was the same way during the 90's Dot-Com era, journalists would explain the World Wide Web with word salad, e.g., the "Graphical portion of the Internet". With regard to Crypto, I decline to discuss it without mentioning the 3Blue1Brown video, sometimes the gambit works and triggers a better discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4 And I love the comments in that video about being "Confused, but on a higher level".