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I must be crazy
- chubs 14y agoOP here: All advice is welcome and will be listened to, that's what makes this place great :)
- jere 14y agoDo you already have a side project that is generating revenue? I'm sure he'll chime in, but Patrick was making more from BCC than he was from his job by the time he quit. http://diycomputerscience.com/blog/post/2011/07/01/create-a-microisv-and-be-your-own-boss---interview-with-patrick-mckenzie http://diycomputerscience.com/blog/post/2011/07/01/create-a-... In all seriousness, good luck!
- chubs 14y agoYes, i'm earning $100-150 daily from existing apps. So it's not a complete leap of faith. I admire those who can persevere at their dayjob whilst building up a side business, i really wish i could do that without going insane. Patrick must be made of sterner stuff than I ;)
- jere 14y agoWell, congrats. It sounds like you are already bringing in a very tight, but livable income. I hope you're taking a hard look at your expenses and your wife is on board.
- kaiwetzel 14y agoGood luck to you! I find it very encouraging to hear from cases like yours, hoping to enter the app store later this year as well. Have you experimented with in-app purchases? (E.g. looking at the impromptu presenter and the fertility app) Your icons look a little bland, though (maybe it's just my taste) :)
- davidw 14y agoI seem to recall that patio11 built BCC up in his spare time before making the leap. In other words, grab the next vine before you let go of the last one...
- chubs 14y agoYou're absolutely right. Maybe i should explain further: I do actually have some moderately successful apps on the app store.
- whileonebegin 14y agoJungle Hunt is a great game. I have it on my arcade. I never thought of it as a life lesson before. Hm.
- bhousel 14y ago>I’m going to make, market, and hustle my iPhone apps like my life depends on it Why can't I find a link or description to them anywhere in your post? I’m the breadwinner with a wife and daughter to support, My wife is due to have our second child in 8 weeks, We’re currently building a house, and the builder’s bills will soon arrive I may be the only person to say it, but I don't think quitting your day job at this time is a good idea.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- jere 14y agoI just noticed a subtle link to apps on the top right of the site: http://splinter.com.au/pages/apps http://splinter.com.au/pages/apps I'm a little less concerned now that I see he has actually made some apps, but it still kind of freaks me out just reading this post.
- MehdiEG 14y agoWhat freaks you out? He makes $100 - $150 a day from app sales, which gives him a comfortable financial cushion. App sales put aside, he reckons that he can keep going for several months on savings alone. And he reckons that, should everything go wrong, he'll have no problem picking up contract work, which I have no problem to believe if he's even just a half-decent developer. No big or crazy risk-taking here. It's always scary of course to go off on your own when you've spent your entire life in the comfortable employee universe so best of luck to the OP!
- chubs 14y agoYou're totally right. And also, some have pointed out (quite correctly) that amy and patrick recommend starting out on the side, so let me explain further: * I have enough savings to last a few months if i sell my motorbike * I'm reasonably well connected and, if all goes badly, getting an ios contract/job in a few months time won't be hard * I already have a dozen apps on the app store, bringing in between $100-$150 daily * Due to a recent house move, i'm unable to code on the train any more which used to be brilliant, so my part-time efforts have dwindled. As for the apps, I really need to make a promo-page for them, the best i can currently give you is here: http://apps.splinter.com.au/ http://apps.splinter.com.au/
- smoyer 14y agoBest of luck! I love the start-up life even though I've seen success and failure ... at least it isn't boring.
- chubs 14y agoThanks a lot! I think you're right, it makes you feel more alive in some fundamental way. I think it's important that i try this once before my time's up.
- Schwolop 14y agoGood on ya mate! I'm a fellow Aussie who's just done the same thing - six days to go until I can build my robots full time.
- tocomment 14y agoWhoah Robots? Tell us more please.
- chubs 14y agoYeah - forget my boring ios apps - tell me more!
- hopeless 14y agoIt's funny how we still have that reaction to robots, when 30years ago it was assumed that we'd all have them living in our homes by now!
- marquis 14y agoLooks like he is solving the problem with projectors and motion sensing: http://www.triplepointrobotics.com/blog/ http://www.triplepointrobotics.com/blog/ (from his HN profile)
- Schwolop 14y agoYeah, robots! I'm a mechatronic engineer with a Ph.D. in robotics from Sydney Uni. I'm entirely sick of the academic rat race, so I've quit to start Triple Point Robotics (www.triplepointrobotics.com) with another colleague from my work, and an old high school friend. Ultimately, we want to be the Apple of consumer robotics, and to have our robots in your homes and offices. That's a big ask, so we're starting out by using robotic technologies to solve various problems. Our first product line will be a combination of augmented reality, computer vision, and SLAM* - we're calling it Augmented Reality over IP. It lets a remote operator draw things in your local environment, and we think this is useful for training, helping the less tech-savvy, tele-medicine, and a bunch of other stuff. One of the coolest parts of our five year plan is that this first product is essentially one component of the head of our ultimate mobile robot. So we get a nice product and some revenue early on, but also solve a bunch of the problems that we'd have to solve later anyway. If you want to know more, ask here, on Quora (there's a TPR topic), or by email to tom@jugglethis.net. I've got HN's noprocrast turned on, so I don't get around to responding here much more than once a day. [*] Simultaneous Localisation And Mapping; an algorithm that is traditionally used to let a robot build a map of its environment at the same time as using the features of this map to work out where it is. We're using it to work out where a camera took a picture from, so that we can stabilise augmented reality overlays projected on the real world.
- tocomment 14y agoWhat does patio11 do now? Consulting?
- chubs 14y agoI think this is his latest venture: https://www.appointmentreminder.org/ https://www.appointmentreminder.org/ Basically following the 37signals model: subscriptions-based SAAS. Pretty neat stuff - i'd do that in a heartbeat over iOS apps if my ruby-on-rails skills weren't so rusty.
- pknerd 14y agoWhat a product development has to do with RoR?
- patio11 14y agoCross-cultural wedding planning. You'd be surprised how few flowers don't mean "I'm sorry your mother died" to somebody! Sorry, just kidding. The center of gravity of my business is a moving target. As of present, it is consulting, largely on marketing topics for software companies. Not where I want to be for forever but, well, wedding to pay for. Appointment Reminder is coming along decently well -- the enterprise pipeline is starting to bear fruit, finally, and the self-serve is quietly growing every month. BCC remains my fun little laboratory where lab accidents can't kill anybody. I will probably have some sort of productized version of consulting services available sometime after the wedding -- maybe August, who knows.
- jmitcheson 14y agoWhere in Australia are you? There are some good meetups for startup guys. Join one of them; it will make it easier for you socially I think. I'm going along to Silicon Beach Melbourne tomorrow night.
- cageface 14y agoI’m going to make, market, and hustle my iPhone apps like my life depends on it. I've been doing exactly this for the last year and I'm very close to switching my focus back to web development. From what I can tell the easy money in the app store is long gone and conditions do not favor the lone developer now. I have two iPad apps that frequently appear in the "What's Hot" list for music and if the revenue they generate is any indication most of us would be better off working as fry cooks. The web gives you so much more insight into your potential customer's behavior that I think that alone might make it a better bet for a solo dev. If you do decide to go solo I'd strongly recommend you hire a professional designer. Aesthetic standards are very high now and from what I can see pretty graphics matter a lot more to the typical iOS app buyer than features.
- revorad 14y agoDistribution seems to me the big advantage of mobile apps. How's your experience been with getting users for your mobile apps? How does it compare to your experience with web apps?
- cageface 14y agoThe #1 problem with the app store for a developer is that it's a total black box. I have no idea how my users find my apps, how they choose them over other apps, or even which aspects of my apps page are most or least effective in enticing them. Contrast this with the kind of insanely detailed analytics you can get on the web now and it's like flying blind. I suspect most of my users have found my apps via posts I've made on dedicated music-making forums but I can't say for sure. I haven't tried selling a web app yet but I did port my iPad synthesizer to the desktop and that seems to generate a lot more traffic without much effort on my part.
- revorad 14y agoI see your point about the black box. But, I have this feeling that maybe the sheer numbers of people that enter the mobile app funnel at all far outweigh those on the web. It seems like the difference between having a big shop on a quiet backstreet and having a tiny shack on a busy high street. You can watch every move of every visitor with a dozen CCTV cameras in your backstreet shop, but the footfall is all on the highstreet. One tip for web apps: make sure to list it on the Chrome web store and keep pushing regular updates and replying to user reviews.
- hopeless 14y agoAmy generally doesn't advise leaving your day job either (disclosure: I've been through her 30x500 course). Having said that, I'm in a similar situation (sole bread winner, 2 kids) and I'll probably be handing in my notice this week too. It's partly because the job was causing me debilitating levels of depression that I just couldn't work in my spare time. I'm planning to work as a freelance rails developer (got my first client on board already) and work on my 30x500 product. I found Jonathan Fields' book 'Uncertainty' quite enlightening and motivating.
- chubs 14y agoThanks for posting! I love hearing from amy's grads. I'm really seriously thinking of doing her course next time around. And i can totally relate to your 'debilitating' job, whereas in my case it was causing stress which, again, limits the amount you can (without being a superhuman stoic) achieve in your spare time. PS please blog about your experiences freelancing and applying amy's principles, i'd love to read about it. Congrats on your first client!
- hef19898 14y agoCouragious, borderline crazy and suicidal, but couragious. :-) I wish you success!
- markyc 14y agogood luck man, be sure to keep us updated, you can make it! subscribed to blog: check
- sparknlaunch 14y agoWow. Good luck. Given your commitments you've made a brave decision to resign. What is your plan for the next week, month, quarter? What are your targets? How many months can you survive without income? Could you not have remained employed by building the foundations of your new business? Will you be sharing your journey?
- ctek 14y agoI have to admit that more than anyone else, Amy and Patrick inspired me to create my minimum viable product, https://www.pageblox.com https://www.pageblox.com which is currently an html/css layout creator. It may end up turning into a CMS, or evolve into a feature-rich web design tool. I launched several months ago and am putting in time every day (except Sundays). It hasn't been easy, but once you establish momentum, it's hard to stop. I, however have not quit my job (I am very risk averse). The podcast Startups for the Rest of Us and the book "Start Small, Stay Small" are probably the best resources for learning how to build your own products... My advice to someone looking to start something on the side: don't quit your job, but find a low-stress job at a large corporation with normal 8 hour workdays and a short commute.
- Ecio78 14y agowith normal 8 hour workdays and a short commute. ...or a long commute by train or other transportation that gives you the opportunity to work on your project with a notebook :)
- eragnew 14y agoThat's awesome man! I think I'm about to follow in your footsteps :)
- makmanalp 14y agoI've quit my job recently too! If any other quitters want to organize, share experiences and get motivated together, I'd love to set up a mailing list and such. We can even do a weekly demo day amongst ourselves. What say you? Contact me at the email in my profile!
- njx 14y agoI think you are making a very bad mistake. Just listening to a podcast... come on.. don't do this to your family. The podcast is selling their services and building audience for future products they will offer. Think twice Don't quit now, generate ideas while at job, start research and then plan accordingly. There are so many incubators that could later help with your idea/prototype. Just my 3c Nilesh I built infocaptor while consulting
- njx 14y agoWhy downvoting?? I am speaking from experience, name it and I have done that.
- edwinnathaniel 14y agoHere's the thing: the OP did not mention that he has some apps that generate $100-$150/day already making the blog post looks like he's a risk taker. (hint: it's how you drive pageviews, no offense OP, but let's be honest until you fix the blog :)). So you're right based on the blog alone, but not necessary 100% right had the OP exposed his side income.
- clarky07 14y agoI didn't downvote, but I suspect the reason other people did is because he has considered these things. He already has a dozen apps on the store that make between 100-150 a day. He didn't just completely jump off a cliff.
- vignesh_vs_in 14y agoI am six months away from doing the same crazy thing. But I have been preparing for this for the past 2 yrs. I aready have few ios, android apps out. And i am in the process of finding co-founders. Thanks to HN for helping me think it is possible to make a living, I have seen so many examples in the past two years here of positives and negatives of self employment. Oh and i also have saved enough money to last a year without a paying job.
- lscott3 14y agoGood luck on this man. You will find that it is far riskier staying at your day job. The reason I say that is because you will always have one foot in. A safety net. You will not have the same motivation to make things happen. Having no safety net makes you well aware of all the opportunities that arise. Having that fail safe makes it so you have a built in excuse, "there is no rush to get this done I am already paying the bills from the day job.". Just a reminder surround yourself with people who will uplift you and that are liked minded, not the ones that say "isn't that pretty risky" or "are you sure you want to do that? You have a baby on the way".
- patio11 14y agoFree advice: should there ever be a gap between the present revenues of your apps and your family's immediate financial needs, a week or six of freelancing iOS development will plug it very quickly indeed. It isn't my market, but I-heard-it-on-the-grapevine hourly rates are in the US$150~$200+ region.
- cageface 14y agoLike every other software market, outsourcing firms are eating up the bottom end of the iOS development market at rates far below that. But I imagine if you can cultivate the right kind of local clients you can do well. Since you mention it, if anybody needs some freelance help with an app I'm available. As a self-outsourced American currently living in Vietnam I can significantly undercut $150/hr. ;)
- ovi256 14y agoPre-empting patio11's obvious response: do not undersell yourself, because that's how you're going to be bought if you do. Let the client tell you your price is high, if that's the case, no need to do it yourself.
- patio11 14y agoCan you explain exactly what about the service delivered is different with you living in Vietnam versus you living in, I don't know, Central Japan? Or, for that matter, living in whatever "One town too far to come into the office in San Francisco" is? I mean, sure, you have a cost of living which will let you attempt to compete on price for the worst projects from the worst customers, but why not just deliver desirable projects for great customers at the price which the market has decided professional iOS development is worth?
- cageface 14y agoI figure the awkward time zone difference for most U.S. clients has to count for some kind of haircut. But your point is well taken. If I do decide to shift my focus from my own products to consulting I'm not going to do it at too high a discount.
- devgutt 14y agoCongratulations!!! Big steep indeed. Give a favor to yourself and don´t work at home, work somewhere else like coworking or shared spaces. Work at home is a focus-killer IMHO.
- nanijoe 14y agoNot true for everyone..I find working anywhere BUT home to be very distracting. Up until 8 months ago, I had worked exclusively from home (aside from the odd client appointment) for 10 years
- devgutt 14y agoYes, this is a personal opinion. I have 2 kids, so I feel bad when I have to put them aside to do some less important thing like "work".
- ja27 14y agoWelcome to the club. If you haven't already, come check out MomsWithApps.com and the associated forums and Facebook group. It's not just moms but a lot of indie mobile app developers. Most members are in the educational market but many have apps in other areas. There are increasing efforts to cross-promote apps.
- jpzeni 14y agoGood luck bro! Never look back.
- knes 14y agoGood luck my friend. Just made the switch 3 months ago and couldn't be any happier. :)
- shad0wfax 14y agoGood luck! I think you can add the intangible element of "being happy doing what you want" to the list of reasons. I think you will love it every day.
- clarky07 14y agoCongrats man. I did exactly this a year ago and it was the best decision I've ever made. If you're interested I wrote up my story a few weeks ago here - http://www.entrelife.com/2012/05/how-i-went-from-0-to-50k-on-app-stores.html http://www.entrelife.com/2012/05/how-i-went-from-0-to-50k-on... Good Luck!
- scottmkroberts 14y agoGood luck and all the best, I am currently on my first workday since going at it alone and its feeling good.
- bignoggins 14y agoBest of luck. I quit my job a year and a half ago to work on my app business full time. I'm now making 6 times my salary from app profits. In my situation, my app profits were already surpassing my income by the time I quit. I'm not sure what your situation is, but I would recommend getting the boat a bit closer to the dock before jumping.
- nodemaker 14y agoIf you are crazy then I must be batshit insane! I left my moderately paying (but extremely boring) job in Virginia and moved back to India few months ago and I am making apps full time. Unlike you I was'nt making anything when I started. Life in a big city in the US and India are so different that initially I was in a "wtf did I just do" phase but I kept going. Recently I started selling my hacker news app (http://www.hackerno.de http://www.hackerno.de ) for $$$ and things are looking better now. Even my parents have stopped asking me to get a job! The thing that sucked most about this whole experience is undoubtedly Xcode. Your life depends on it and it will crash all the effin time!
- cageface 14y agoAppCode is the cure for your Xcode frustrations.
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- rheide 14y agoI was about to write "You must be an idiot". Then I read your reasons for quitting and understood completely. My compliments, sir.
- dools 14y agoNot sure which city you're in but if you're starting out in business then the one thing I can tell you that I wish someone had told me 7 years ago is: networking is not for losers. Networking is the most valuable thing you can do in business. Some great networking hubs are @inspire9 in Melbourne (tweet at them they're really responsive), the York Butter Factory also in Melbourne and Fishburners.org in Sydney (they have co-working spaces in Ultimo and urr, Darlinghurst I think?). I know there's a good place in Brisbane, too but I can't remember the name. If you tweet @pc0 he'll tell you :) He visited recently (and is one of the foundational members of the Fishburners community).
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- mlguy 14y agoAre the rates really that high? If so, I must be doing something wrong... .NET developer in Washington DC contracting for a major government agency, and I'm pulling in ~$100/hr (roughly $200K per year). I thought I had a great rate, and most people tell me that I am, so it's a shock for me to see someone could be pulling in $150/hr.
- alinajaf 14y agoYou're describing my situation almost exactly (i.e. making the leap to consulting with nothing lined up). I'm a few months ahead of you, and have had some serious ups and downs so far. More free advice for others considering the same: * I don't have savings, so I took a loan amounting to about 3 months of expenses. Having cash in the bank makes me feel a lot better about doing this with a baby on the way. It also means I'm not forced to do low-paid work to make rent. Best case: You pay it all off + early payment fee when you sign your first big deal. Worst case: You get to the end of the runway and have to go back to perm work to pay it off. [1] * It's been said many times but bears repeating: Charge more. Every lead I followed up got a daily rate roughly $200 USD more than the last. I can barely stomach quoting my current rate to clients, but I'm not going to argue with those willing to pay it. [2] * Read about negotiation. Secrets of Power Negotiating for defence, Getting to Yes for doing the actual negotiating. Biggest bit of advice I can give personally is to shut up more often. Never talk the other person into paying you less money when they're perfectly happy paying you more! * Same again for networking: Never Eat Alone is the standard text. If like me you have the social skills of a cave troll, How to Win Friends and Influence People is a good read. * Remember to spend time on your thing. If you're not sure what your thing is, spend time figuring out what your thing should be (still at that stage myself). With networking, chasing client work, planning meetings and then doing client work, it can be difficult to keep this up. Alternatively, once you know what your thing is, Charge More and spend a few weeks at a time (this is my plan and something I've seen others execute successfully). * Have actual, zero-business-value downtime. Pick up a hobby or two if you need to. I chose amateur robotics and catching up on classic SF. It will help you stay sane when things get rough (based on my experience and that of every consultant/freelancer I've spoken to, things will get rough). Good hunting! [1] I'm not a financial advisor, yadda yadda. [2] Another good thing about charging more: clients see you as a consultant rather than additional technical resource. I've found that at higher rates, people tend to value your opinion a great deal more than otherwise, leading to a nice virtuous cycle.