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Yeah, the ROI is way lower than tech. You need capital for land (and if you are going to have this capital as a tech person, go invest it and get passive retur

Yeah, the ROI is way lower than tech. You need capital for land (and if you are going to have this capital as a tech person, go invest it and get passive returns, or start your own tech company doing service work) + labor. Your labor is worth less, and close to third world wages. The economic value comes from improving the land with labor and tech. Your competition is paying the same wages. I know 2 people doing this, both are on medicaid.

polairscience 2y ago
They're both on medicaid because we have decided collectively, as a society, that "ROI" is something we should chase. The mentality that it's the wrong choice because he's not trying to write a money printing piece of software is precisely why we live in the world we do. I admire someone who wants to go out and create something in the physical world. Even if, for insane reasons, America no longer seems to value that.
- oopsallmagic 2y ago
  Concur. I cannot believe we've gotten to the point where the tech elite poopoo one of the last remaining jobs that actually keeps people alive because it doesn't make the stock price go brrrrr. Maybe... maybe some things are worth doing not simply because there's a dollar sign in the result. Let's ponder that this Juneteenth.
  - ttyprintk 2y ago
    This has nothing to do with tech weenies. The enemies of the American farmer are: - declining reliability of seeds - increasing variation in climate - Ron DeSantis, according to Donald Trump
    - polairscience 2y ago
      While those things are true, the real enemy of the American farmer is in fact the American mentality. Of which, one component is the incessant need to get high ROI on low effort projects. We're obsessed with it as culture. This website revolves around it. It's our social network that creates an environment where farmers aren't valued. We value web advertisements. Plain and simple. Look what jobs pay the most.
      - ttyprintk 2y ago
        You're right; my parent post was off-topic, just the things my local farmers say they worry about. I think the temptation of America's artisanal manufacturing and farming is to revive a strong relationship between hard work and value. Maybe you remember beginning in software to help people, but look back at too many sacrifices inflicted on nature and humanity just to game the extractive component of ROI. So, I agree with your philosophy, but I want to say that farmers themselves obsess about ROI. I'm sure you understand their long-term success relies on interfacing with competitive markets right up to physical delivery. I wouldn't call that an American mentality because it affects farmers around the world.
randomdata 2y ago
> Yeah, the ROI is way lower than tech. The classic risk-reward scenario. Tech has the potential for tremendously greater upside, but it is also insanely difficult to succeed in. Farming is comparatively quite easy. Your customer base is essentially guaranteed. > go invest it and get passive returns Technically farmland is an investment with passive returns. Other farmers will fall over themselves to rent it from you. If you choose to farm it yourself, you do not lose the passive return. Your farm income should reflect the rent that you would have otherwise paid if it weren't your land. Thus, in effect, you are still paying rent to yourself even if you don't formally account for it. > Your labor is worth less My tech job also pays me to farm. Double-dipping will always be worth more. However, even ignoring that, I make more per hour farming than I do in my tech job. It is not very many hours, though. A hypothetical $10,000 per hour job doesn't get you far if there is only one hour of work per year to do. This is why making a living farming is hard.

polairscience 2y ago

They're both on medicaid because we have decided collectively, as a society, that "ROI" is something we should chase. The mentality that it's the wrong choice because he's not trying to write a money printing piece of software is precisely why we live in the world we do. I admire someone who wants to go out and create something in the physical world. Even if, for insane reasons, America no longer seems to value that.

oopsallmagic 2y ago
Concur. I cannot believe we've gotten to the point where the tech elite poopoo one of the last remaining jobs that actually keeps people alive because it doesn't make the stock price go brrrrr. Maybe... maybe some things are worth doing not simply because there's a dollar sign in the result. Let's ponder that this Juneteenth.
- ttyprintk 2y ago
  This has nothing to do with tech weenies. The enemies of the American farmer are: - declining reliability of seeds - increasing variation in climate - Ron DeSantis, according to Donald Trump
  - polairscience 2y ago
    While those things are true, the real enemy of the American farmer is in fact the American mentality. Of which, one component is the incessant need to get high ROI on low effort projects. We're obsessed with it as culture. This website revolves around it. It's our social network that creates an environment where farmers aren't valued. We value web advertisements. Plain and simple. Look what jobs pay the most.
    - ttyprintk 2y ago
      You're right; my parent post was off-topic, just the things my local farmers say they worry about. I think the temptation of America's artisanal manufacturing and farming is to revive a strong relationship between hard work and value. Maybe you remember beginning in software to help people, but look back at too many sacrifices inflicted on nature and humanity just to game the extractive component of ROI. So, I agree with your philosophy, but I want to say that farmers themselves obsess about ROI. I'm sure you understand their long-term success relies on interfacing with competitive markets right up to physical delivery. I wouldn't call that an American mentality because it affects farmers around the world.

randomdata 2y ago

> Yeah, the ROI is way lower than tech. The classic risk-reward scenario. Tech has the potential for tremendously greater upside, but it is also insanely difficult to succeed in. Farming is comparatively quite easy. Your customer base is essentially guaranteed. > go invest it and get passive returns Technically farmland is an investment with passive returns. Other farmers will fall over themselves to rent it from you. If you choose to farm it yourself, you do not lose the passive return. Your farm income should reflect the rent that you would have otherwise paid if it weren't your land. Thus, in effect, you are still paying rent to yourself even if you don't formally account for it. > Your labor is worth less My tech job also pays me to farm. Double-dipping will always be worth more. However, even ignoring that, I make more per hour farming than I do in my tech job. It is not very many hours, though. A hypothetical $10,000 per hour job doesn't get you far if there is only one hour of work per year to do. This is why making a living farming is hard.