4 ms·

Farming for fun is probably ok but farming for income sounds like a horrific idea

by teddyX 2y ago

bobim 2y ago
It pays badly yet it's the most essential bs-devoid job on this planet. That's showing how much our society is twisted.
- malfist 2y ago
  Oh there's lots of bullshit in farming, especially if you have cattle
  - sir_eliah 2y ago
    Golden comment.
  - cies 2y ago
    That why I hate the word "farm" and derivatives like "farmer" and "farming". On one side is see land cultivators and on the other hand i see animal exploiters. The first do -IHMO- a great job akin to school teacher, the latter do a horrible job akin to a concentration camp commander. Having one word to describe both is beyond me. That said, I do find it amazing how these two groups stick together and back each other up in politics!
    - ttyprintk 2y ago
      Ranchers and farmers are quite different and I get along much better with the latter. Their politics coincide when it comes to a common cause, like water for hay.
    - PuissantSheep 2y ago
      I think the terms "farmer" and "farm" are entirely appropriate, as the farms that traditionally sustained humanity absolutely required animals to provide labor, fertilize the soil, and consume what would otherwise be waste. This all looks like a "concentration camp" to vegans, because vegans enjoy their privileged beliefs. Veganism is a form of masochistic asceticism. But since I'm talking to a vegan interlocutor, the response will be "murderer, psychopath, exploiter, rapist, torturer", et cetera. The out-group is wrong and evil, by definition.
      - Vegenoid 2y ago
        Most vegans are not militant and hateful as you describe, they are just the most visible ones. Most vegans live regular lives and are friendly to omnivores, and you'd only know they were vegan if you spent some time with them and encountered situations where food decisions were being made.
      - cies 2y ago
        > I think the terms "farmer" and "farm" are entirely appropriate, as the farms that traditionally sustained humanity absolutely required animals to provide labor, fertilize the soil, and consume what would otherwise be waste. So there was a past in which the lines were more blurry and animals were not as hardcore exploited as they are today. I agree. And there was a time in which people in many places needed animal husbandry to survive (nomads, cold climates, etc. -- everywhere away from the habitat of the other primates). I agree. But what I do not agree on is that these two points make the word "farmer" less "cover two topics at once" in this day and age, were: 1) animals are most commonly being exploited at a massive scale when being "farmed", and 2) we can live really well without animal derived foods/clothes/labour
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- soraminazuki 2y ago
  Unfortunately, farming isn't devoid of BS either. As is the case with many other topics, John Oliver did multiple segments on that as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41vETgarh_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41vETgarh_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI78WOW_u-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI78WOW_u-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za45bT41sXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za45bT41sXg Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me_2:_Holy_Chicken https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me_2:_Holy_Chicken
resource_waste 2y ago
Yeah, the ROI is way lower than tech. You need capital for land (and if you are going to have this capital as a tech person, go invest it and get passive returns, or start your own tech company doing service work) + labor. Your labor is worth less, and close to third world wages. The economic value comes from improving the land with labor and tech. Your competition is paying the same wages. I know 2 people doing this, both are on medicaid.
- polairscience 2y ago
  They're both on medicaid because we have decided collectively, as a society, that "ROI" is something we should chase. The mentality that it's the wrong choice because he's not trying to write a money printing piece of software is precisely why we live in the world we do. I admire someone who wants to go out and create something in the physical world. Even if, for insane reasons, America no longer seems to value that.
  - oopsallmagic 2y ago
    Concur. I cannot believe we've gotten to the point where the tech elite poopoo one of the last remaining jobs that actually keeps people alive because it doesn't make the stock price go brrrrr. Maybe... maybe some things are worth doing not simply because there's a dollar sign in the result. Let's ponder that this Juneteenth.
    - ttyprintk 2y ago
      This has nothing to do with tech weenies. The enemies of the American farmer are: - declining reliability of seeds - increasing variation in climate - Ron DeSantis, according to Donald Trump
      - polairscience 2y ago
        While those things are true, the real enemy of the American farmer is in fact the American mentality. Of which, one component is the incessant need to get high ROI on low effort projects. We're obsessed with it as culture. This website revolves around it. It's our social network that creates an environment where farmers aren't valued. We value web advertisements. Plain and simple. Look what jobs pay the most.
shagie 2y ago
A lot of things "for fun" are probably ok. The difficulty comes when you don't enjoy / tolerate the hard problems that come with doing it for an income. Programming for fun is great too. Hit a problem that's not something you enjoy? Drop the project and move on. The "its fun" vs "I don't tolerate these hard problems that come with the skill" is a significant disconnect that people have and one of the things that generates a lot of people starting something (be it a project or a career) and not moving up on it. http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018-10.html#e2018-10-21T09_53_29.htm http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018... > ... Then I went off to college to study architecture... and found that, while I liked many things about the field, I didn't really like to do the grunt work that is part of the architecture student's life, and when the assigned projects got more challenging, I didn't really enjoy working on them. > But I had enjoyed working on the hard projects I'd encountered in my programing class back in high school. They were challenges I wanted to overcome. I changed my major and dove into college CS courses, which were full of hard problems -- but hard problems that I wanted to solve. I didn't mind being frustrated for an entire semester one year, working in assembly language and JCL, because I wanted to solve the puzzles. > Maybe this is what people mean when they tell us to "find our passion", but that phrase seems pretty abstract to me. Maybe instead we should encourage people to find the hard problems they like to work on. Which problems do you want to keep working on, even when they turn out to be harder than you expected? Which kinds of frustration do you enjoy, or at least are willing to endure while you figure things out? Answers to these very practical questions might help you find a place where you can build an interesting and rewarding life. > I realize that "Find your passion" makes for a more compelling motivational poster than "What hard problems do you enjoy working on?" (and even that's a lot better than "What kind of pain are you willing to endure?"), but it might give some people a more realistic way to approach finding their life's work.
Havoc 2y ago
Doesn’t have to be either or. Maybe he has some reserves but not entirely enough.

Farming for fun is probably ok but farming for income sounds like a horrific idea

by teddyX 2y ago

Farming for fun is probably ok but farming for income sounds like a horrific idea

bobim 2y ago

It pays badly yet it's the most essential bs-devoid job on this planet. That's showing how much our society is twisted.

malfist 2y ago
Oh there's lots of bullshit in farming, especially if you have cattle
- sir_eliah 2y ago
  Golden comment.
- cies 2y ago
  That why I hate the word "farm" and derivatives like "farmer" and "farming". On one side is see land cultivators and on the other hand i see animal exploiters. The first do -IHMO- a great job akin to school teacher, the latter do a horrible job akin to a concentration camp commander. Having one word to describe both is beyond me. That said, I do find it amazing how these two groups stick together and back each other up in politics!
  - ttyprintk 2y ago
    Ranchers and farmers are quite different and I get along much better with the latter. Their politics coincide when it comes to a common cause, like water for hay.
  - PuissantSheep 2y ago
    I think the terms "farmer" and "farm" are entirely appropriate, as the farms that traditionally sustained humanity absolutely required animals to provide labor, fertilize the soil, and consume what would otherwise be waste. This all looks like a "concentration camp" to vegans, because vegans enjoy their privileged beliefs. Veganism is a form of masochistic asceticism. But since I'm talking to a vegan interlocutor, the response will be "murderer, psychopath, exploiter, rapist, torturer", et cetera. The out-group is wrong and evil, by definition.
    - Vegenoid 2y ago
      Most vegans are not militant and hateful as you describe, they are just the most visible ones. Most vegans live regular lives and are friendly to omnivores, and you'd only know they were vegan if you spent some time with them and encountered situations where food decisions were being made.
    - cies 2y ago
      > I think the terms "farmer" and "farm" are entirely appropriate, as the farms that traditionally sustained humanity absolutely required animals to provide labor, fertilize the soil, and consume what would otherwise be waste. So there was a past in which the lines were more blurry and animals were not as hardcore exploited as they are today. I agree. And there was a time in which people in many places needed animal husbandry to survive (nomads, cold climates, etc. -- everywhere away from the habitat of the other primates). I agree. But what I do not agree on is that these two points make the word "farmer" less "cover two topics at once" in this day and age, were: 1) animals are most commonly being exploited at a massive scale when being "farmed", and 2) we can live really well without animal derived foods/clothes/labour
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
soraminazuki 2y ago
Unfortunately, farming isn't devoid of BS either. As is the case with many other topics, John Oliver did multiple segments on that as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41vETgarh_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41vETgarh_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI78WOW_u-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI78WOW_u-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za45bT41sXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za45bT41sXg Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me_2:_Holy_Chicken https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me_2:_Holy_Chicken

resource_waste 2y ago

Yeah, the ROI is way lower than tech. You need capital for land (and if you are going to have this capital as a tech person, go invest it and get passive returns, or start your own tech company doing service work) + labor. Your labor is worth less, and close to third world wages. The economic value comes from improving the land with labor and tech. Your competition is paying the same wages. I know 2 people doing this, both are on medicaid.

polairscience 2y ago
They're both on medicaid because we have decided collectively, as a society, that "ROI" is something we should chase. The mentality that it's the wrong choice because he's not trying to write a money printing piece of software is precisely why we live in the world we do. I admire someone who wants to go out and create something in the physical world. Even if, for insane reasons, America no longer seems to value that.
- oopsallmagic 2y ago
  Concur. I cannot believe we've gotten to the point where the tech elite poopoo one of the last remaining jobs that actually keeps people alive because it doesn't make the stock price go brrrrr. Maybe... maybe some things are worth doing not simply because there's a dollar sign in the result. Let's ponder that this Juneteenth.
  - ttyprintk 2y ago
    This has nothing to do with tech weenies. The enemies of the American farmer are: - declining reliability of seeds - increasing variation in climate - Ron DeSantis, according to Donald Trump
    - polairscience 2y ago
      While those things are true, the real enemy of the American farmer is in fact the American mentality. Of which, one component is the incessant need to get high ROI on low effort projects. We're obsessed with it as culture. This website revolves around it. It's our social network that creates an environment where farmers aren't valued. We value web advertisements. Plain and simple. Look what jobs pay the most.

shagie 2y ago

A lot of things "for fun" are probably ok. The difficulty comes when you don't enjoy / tolerate the hard problems that come with doing it for an income. Programming for fun is great too. Hit a problem that's not something you enjoy? Drop the project and move on. The "its fun" vs "I don't tolerate these hard problems that come with the skill" is a significant disconnect that people have and one of the things that generates a lot of people starting something (be it a project or a career) and not moving up on it. http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018-10.html#e2018-10-21T09_53_29.htm http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018... > ... Then I went off to college to study architecture... and found that, while I liked many things about the field, I didn't really like to do the grunt work that is part of the architecture student's life, and when the assigned projects got more challenging, I didn't really enjoy working on them. > But I had enjoyed working on the hard projects I'd encountered in my programing class back in high school. They were challenges I wanted to overcome. I changed my major and dove into college CS courses, which were full of hard problems -- but hard problems that I wanted to solve. I didn't mind being frustrated for an entire semester one year, working in assembly language and JCL, because I wanted to solve the puzzles. > Maybe this is what people mean when they tell us to "find our passion", but that phrase seems pretty abstract to me. Maybe instead we should encourage people to find the hard problems they like to work on. Which problems do you want to keep working on, even when they turn out to be harder than you expected? Which kinds of frustration do you enjoy, or at least are willing to endure while you figure things out? Answers to these very practical questions might help you find a place where you can build an interesting and rewarding life. > I realize that "Find your passion" makes for a more compelling motivational poster than "What hard problems do you enjoy working on?" (and even that's a lot better than "What kind of pain are you willing to endure?"), but it might give some people a more realistic way to approach finding their life's work.

Havoc 2y ago

Doesn’t have to be either or. Maybe he has some reserves but not entirely enough.