4 ms·

In the past that was basically the rule OS vendors were expected to abide by

by kevingadd 2y ago

akmarinov 2y ago
This has never been the case. Apple has always had non-core apps that use private APIs.
- flohofwoe 2y ago
  ...which doesn't make it right. Even the existence of "private APIs" is a massive red flag. If an operating system feature is accessible from user space, then it should also be documented, supported and legal to use.
  - Zambyte 2y ago
    "Legal" is such a mind blowing term to use here. How can it be illegal for you to use the features that are designed into the device you bought? Limiting it arbitrarily for an artificial advantage should be illegal.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - doctor_eval 2y ago
    I just don’t agree with this for a moment. And ironically the topic was covered in Gruber’s WWDC talk. What you’re proposing is exactly the same as saying that Apple is not allowed to privately test their APIs and frameworks in their own software before they let others use them. Of course they should be able to do that. Of course they do not have an obligation to open everything to everyone at all times. This is not like the bad old days where Microsoft used private APIs to disadvantage third party software in an operating system that literally had 95% world wide market share. I don’t know what share iOS has, but it’s a tiny fraction of the installed base of all operating systems.
    - ginko 2y ago
      >This is not like the bad old days where Microsoft used private APIs to disadvantage third party software in an operating system that literally had 95% world wide market share. This is much worse than the bad old days. If an app is in a business Apple doesn't like or uses technology Apple doesn't approve of they just ban them outright.
      - doctor_eval 2y ago
        It’s not worse at all, that’s ridiculous. Most devices now run Linux. The world of software is far more open than it was in the 1990s. That doesn’t mean every device needs to be open.
        ginko 2y ago
        >That doesn’t mean every device needs to be open. That's your opinion.
    - archagon 2y ago
      It’s my device. I should have the right to invoke any API, public or private, just as Apple has the right to change the private APIs out from under me. Same as on the Mac.
      - doctor_eval 2y ago
        I disagree. I want my phone to Just Work. I don’t want people to publish software that uses unstable APIs because that means your software running on my phone is going to break when I upgrade it. There are many dimensions to “freedom”, and in the case of my phone, I want freedom from janky software that breaks when the OS gets a minor upgrade. I want the freedom of a device that almost never fails. I want freedom from malicious software that puts its fingers down my throat and rips out my private data because some alpha quality API has bugs. In any case, you can and do have the freedom to use these private APIs on your phone, you can do it right from Xcode and install the software directly on your phone. The only freedom you don’t have is the freedom to publish that software as a product and risk making my phone break, or worse.

In the past that was basically the rule OS vendors were expected to abide by

akmarinov 2y ago

This has never been the case. Apple has always had non-core apps that use private APIs.

flohofwoe 2y ago
...which doesn't make it right. Even the existence of "private APIs" is a massive red flag. If an operating system feature is accessible from user space, then it should also be documented, supported and legal to use.
- Zambyte 2y ago
  "Legal" is such a mind blowing term to use here. How can it be illegal for you to use the features that are designed into the device you bought? Limiting it arbitrarily for an artificial advantage should be illegal.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- doctor_eval 2y ago
  I just don’t agree with this for a moment. And ironically the topic was covered in Gruber’s WWDC talk. What you’re proposing is exactly the same as saying that Apple is not allowed to privately test their APIs and frameworks in their own software before they let others use them. Of course they should be able to do that. Of course they do not have an obligation to open everything to everyone at all times. This is not like the bad old days where Microsoft used private APIs to disadvantage third party software in an operating system that literally had 95% world wide market share. I don’t know what share iOS has, but it’s a tiny fraction of the installed base of all operating systems.
  - ginko 2y ago
    >This is not like the bad old days where Microsoft used private APIs to disadvantage third party software in an operating system that literally had 95% world wide market share. This is much worse than the bad old days. If an app is in a business Apple doesn't like or uses technology Apple doesn't approve of they just ban them outright.
    - doctor_eval 2y ago
      It’s not worse at all, that’s ridiculous. Most devices now run Linux. The world of software is far more open than it was in the 1990s. That doesn’t mean every device needs to be open.
      - ginko 2y ago
        >That doesn’t mean every device needs to be open. That's your opinion.
  - archagon 2y ago
    It’s my device. I should have the right to invoke any API, public or private, just as Apple has the right to change the private APIs out from under me. Same as on the Mac.
    - doctor_eval 2y ago
      I disagree. I want my phone to Just Work. I don’t want people to publish software that uses unstable APIs because that means your software running on my phone is going to break when I upgrade it. There are many dimensions to “freedom”, and in the case of my phone, I want freedom from janky software that breaks when the OS gets a minor upgrade. I want the freedom of a device that almost never fails. I want freedom from malicious software that puts its fingers down my throat and rips out my private data because some alpha quality API has bugs. In any case, you can and do have the freedom to use these private APIs on your phone, you can do it right from Xcode and install the software directly on your phone. The only freedom you don’t have is the freedom to publish that software as a product and risk making my phone break, or worse.