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Chicago doesn't allow 5 over 1s. All those new 3-5 story buildings in Chicago are masonry (CMU) or steel frame curtain wall. I've watched some of them get built

Chicago doesn't allow 5 over 1s. All those new 3-5 story buildings in Chicago are masonry (CMU) or steel frame curtain wall. I've watched some of them get built. Building out of CMU is cost effective and they can be combined with brick for facades (brick-and-block). This should put to lie the idea that 5 over 1s are the only way cost-effective way to build. CMU construction is cheap it's just not quite as cheap as timber frame, and developers will always choose the cheapest technique they're allowed to use.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
Landowners know how much construction costs, so land prices are probably lower in Chicago as opposed to elsewhere. If you have multiple developers bidding for the same (in demand) land, then the one willing to pay the most will obviously have to choose to reduce construction costs wherever possible to afford.
- Kon-Peki 2y ago
  Land prices in Chicago are definitely cheaper than other large cities. But at the same time, the fire code and zoning make it pretty rare that a 6-floor building is the right economic choice. You might as well build it to be 10-15 floors. The approval process isn’t going to be more difficult or time consuming, your per-unit costs will be lower, and there’s no shortage of banks willing to finance it. This is also quite different than most other large cities.
jrochkind1 2y ago
Interesting. Really, the more I think about it, the more I'm dissapointed in the OP. Yes, I totally agree with OP that mid-rise 2-4 stories of residential over ground level of retail is a great livable urban design, and it would be a huge mistake to do anything to discourage or prevent this. The question is -- what are the constraints on what that looks like, what is it exactly that people are saying they don't like about "5 over 1", let's compare to various historical ways of building several stories of residentail over a ground floor of retail, let's look at what the cost factors and constraints are here, let's compare different cities, let's think about what sort of building codes might lead to different designs, etc. I want that article! (To be fair, plenty of new construction in Chicago is pretty bad too. I think that second picture I posted above of residential-over-retail is a pretty ugly and street-unfriendly building, although it gives everyone a front-facing balcony that presumably raised the value of those presumably condos. looks like a parking garage. https://www.google.com/maps/@41.962424,-87.6661565,3a,75y,262.19h,119.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sv6TOZ5H83BO2hiA_L4BBSA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@41.962424,-87.6661565,3a,75y,26... )

lotsofpulp 2y ago

Landowners know how much construction costs, so land prices are probably lower in Chicago as opposed to elsewhere. If you have multiple developers bidding for the same (in demand) land, then the one willing to pay the most will obviously have to choose to reduce construction costs wherever possible to afford.

Kon-Peki 2y ago
Land prices in Chicago are definitely cheaper than other large cities. But at the same time, the fire code and zoning make it pretty rare that a 6-floor building is the right economic choice. You might as well build it to be 10-15 floors. The approval process isn’t going to be more difficult or time consuming, your per-unit costs will be lower, and there’s no shortage of banks willing to finance it. This is also quite different than most other large cities.

jrochkind1 2y ago

Interesting. Really, the more I think about it, the more I'm dissapointed in the OP. Yes, I totally agree with OP that mid-rise 2-4 stories of residential over ground level of retail is a great livable urban design, and it would be a huge mistake to do anything to discourage or prevent this. The question is -- what are the constraints on what that looks like, what is it exactly that people are saying they don't like about "5 over 1", let's compare to various historical ways of building several stories of residentail over a ground floor of retail, let's look at what the cost factors and constraints are here, let's compare different cities, let's think about what sort of building codes might lead to different designs, etc. I want that article! (To be fair, plenty of new construction in Chicago is pretty bad too. I think that second picture I posted above of residential-over-retail is a pretty ugly and street-unfriendly building, although it gives everyone a front-facing balcony that presumably raised the value of those presumably condos. looks like a parking garage. https://www.google.com/maps/@41.962424,-87.6661565,3a,75y,262.19h,119.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sv6TOZ5H83BO2hiA_L4BBSA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@41.962424,-87.6661565,3a,75y,26... )