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I'm sorry, are you talking about the plastic caps that stay attached to plastic bottles so that they are more likely to be disposed of properly rather than end

by rekoil 2y ago

I'm sorry, are you talking about the plastic caps that stay attached to plastic bottles so that they are more likely to be disposed of properly rather than end up in some marine (or other nature) environment? I cannot believe you're comparing that (an effort designed to make recycling more effective, which is generally a good thing) to EU citizens entirely losing our access to privacy in the digital world.

ffgjgf1 2y ago
How exactly do bottle caps in the EU end up in marine environments? And if they do that should be pretty easy to fix. These regulations won’t do anything to stop countries in Asia, Africa and other places from pumping their garbage into rivers and oceans… To be fair I don’t really mind the bottle caps (unlike the plastic straw ban) but it hardly accomplishes anything beautiful allowing people in the EU to feel better about themselves because they are doing their part (which is possibly actually counterproductive).
- rvnx 2y ago
  The solution was an EU-wide plastic bottle deposit, this way, it pushes people to bring back intact bottles with their caps and get ~0.10 EUR back for each. And if you are too lazy to bring it back or just a person who throws away stuff carelessly, someone else will do (big sorting centers as it's a big revenue-stream, the cleaners, the homelesses, some bored students, etc).
  - vidarh 2y ago
    I'm all for requiring bottle deposit/returns schemes. I loved the Norwegian one for example, but if you require the return of both or nothing, you will likely end up with a net reduction in returned plastic. If you were to reward returns separately, maybe. But even then you'd be more likely to ensure caps don't get lost if they stay attached.
- sunbum 2y ago
  But they are, as it becomes easier to just produce one version the bottle caps attached to the bottle will spread to other countries[1] [1]- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
nybxwda 2y ago
[flagged]
- NekkoDroid 2y ago
  I dunno how you drink out of a bottle, but I most certainly don't deep throat it to have its neck in my mouth. Please enlighten me how it would make it impossible to "drink properly" when the bottle is flipped beyond the neck.
  - pacija 2y ago
    I have problem with 0.5l yoghurt bottles. Yoghurt is best when shaken before opening the bottle because its viscosity spreads evenly, otherwise you get watery yoghurt on top, bottom is too dense. I enjoy having morning breakfast in the park, drinking yoghurt straight from the bottle. When I shake it, yoghurt sticks to the cap. When caps were removable, I'd put it aside so that yoghurt that stuck to the cap does not spill on my shirt, re-screw it after I finish and throw bottle and cap to the bin. Now it's hard to remove the cap and I spill yoghurt on my shirt frequently, so I go to greater lengths to tear the cap away and re-screw when I empty the bottle.
    - NekkoDroid 2y ago
      I guess that is a case. But generally this isn't something that is a problem on most bottles. (Also, lick the damn cap clean, stop wasting yogurt)
  - to_be_flagged 2y ago
    I do not know what it means to "flip a bottle beyond the neck". Tetrapack milk packages have some sort of a "roof" on top. The opening is on one of the sides of the roof. It is hard to drink from that anyway, now additionally the cap is pressing against the lips. You don't have to "deep throat" a water bottle either to feel the effect. The cap always disturbs. It is also ugly of you have water bottles on a dinner table with the cap hanging on the side. It is also harder to screw the cap back on. But like in the EU, criticism here can just be flagged and then it never happened.
rvnx 2y ago
The same, it solves a marginal problem (people that throw away on the highway only the plastic caps, and somehow keep separate the bottle), in an absurd way that punishes all the nice users, again, just to solve a small % of very cases. The guys who somehow enjoy throwing away plastic caps, will likely remove it anyway. The same with the spying, all users will suffer, but those who want to work around it, will find a way. The irony is that it makes driving more dangerous now, as you need two hands to drink from a water bottle.
- rekoil 2y ago
  Punish is a strong word, it slightly inconveniences all "the nice users". It's really not that big of a deal honestly, you unscrew the bottle, flip the cap up (it kinda locks like that and stays out of your way in one of the designs I've seen, in the other it's just attached and can easily be kept out of the way with a finger), then you drink, I fail to see how you suddenly need two hands as opposed to before...
  - gabaix 2y ago
    Not debating the merits of this case. There are many regulations that slightly inconvenience the many, to address the problems of a few. Individually these cases are benign. As a group they compound complexity. Each new reform should be evaluated on both its benefits and the burden that it brings.
    - rekoil 2y ago
      Wholeheartedly agree. But we (as a society) have neglected the environment for far too fucking long now, some inconvenience for tiny gains is valid until we start seeing societal and environmental improvements.
  - vidarh 2y ago
    If anything, I've come to like them because you now don't need to hold on to the cap.
  - salawat 2y ago

by rekoil 2y ago

ffgjgf1 2y ago

How exactly do bottle caps in the EU end up in marine environments? And if they do that should be pretty easy to fix. These regulations won’t do anything to stop countries in Asia, Africa and other places from pumping their garbage into rivers and oceans… To be fair I don’t really mind the bottle caps (unlike the plastic straw ban) but it hardly accomplishes anything beautiful allowing people in the EU to feel better about themselves because they are doing their part (which is possibly actually counterproductive).

rvnx 2y ago
The solution was an EU-wide plastic bottle deposit, this way, it pushes people to bring back intact bottles with their caps and get ~0.10 EUR back for each. And if you are too lazy to bring it back or just a person who throws away stuff carelessly, someone else will do (big sorting centers as it's a big revenue-stream, the cleaners, the homelesses, some bored students, etc).
- vidarh 2y ago
  I'm all for requiring bottle deposit/returns schemes. I loved the Norwegian one for example, but if you require the return of both or nothing, you will likely end up with a net reduction in returned plastic. If you were to reward returns separately, maybe. But even then you'd be more likely to ensure caps don't get lost if they stay attached.
sunbum 2y ago
But they are, as it becomes easier to just produce one version the bottle caps attached to the bottle will spread to other countries[1] [1]- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

nybxwda 2y ago

[flagged]

NekkoDroid 2y ago
I dunno how you drink out of a bottle, but I most certainly don't deep throat it to have its neck in my mouth. Please enlighten me how it would make it impossible to "drink properly" when the bottle is flipped beyond the neck.
- pacija 2y ago
  I have problem with 0.5l yoghurt bottles. Yoghurt is best when shaken before opening the bottle because its viscosity spreads evenly, otherwise you get watery yoghurt on top, bottom is too dense. I enjoy having morning breakfast in the park, drinking yoghurt straight from the bottle. When I shake it, yoghurt sticks to the cap. When caps were removable, I'd put it aside so that yoghurt that stuck to the cap does not spill on my shirt, re-screw it after I finish and throw bottle and cap to the bin. Now it's hard to remove the cap and I spill yoghurt on my shirt frequently, so I go to greater lengths to tear the cap away and re-screw when I empty the bottle.
  - NekkoDroid 2y ago
    I guess that is a case. But generally this isn't something that is a problem on most bottles. (Also, lick the damn cap clean, stop wasting yogurt)
- to_be_flagged 2y ago
  I do not know what it means to "flip a bottle beyond the neck". Tetrapack milk packages have some sort of a "roof" on top. The opening is on one of the sides of the roof. It is hard to drink from that anyway, now additionally the cap is pressing against the lips. You don't have to "deep throat" a water bottle either to feel the effect. The cap always disturbs. It is also ugly of you have water bottles on a dinner table with the cap hanging on the side. It is also harder to screw the cap back on. But like in the EU, criticism here can just be flagged and then it never happened.

rvnx 2y ago

The same, it solves a marginal problem (people that throw away on the highway only the plastic caps, and somehow keep separate the bottle), in an absurd way that punishes all the nice users, again, just to solve a small % of very cases. The guys who somehow enjoy throwing away plastic caps, will likely remove it anyway. The same with the spying, all users will suffer, but those who want to work around it, will find a way. The irony is that it makes driving more dangerous now, as you need two hands to drink from a water bottle.

rekoil 2y ago
Punish is a strong word, it slightly inconveniences all "the nice users". It's really not that big of a deal honestly, you unscrew the bottle, flip the cap up (it kinda locks like that and stays out of your way in one of the designs I've seen, in the other it's just attached and can easily be kept out of the way with a finger), then you drink, I fail to see how you suddenly need two hands as opposed to before...
- gabaix 2y ago
  Not debating the merits of this case. There are many regulations that slightly inconvenience the many, to address the problems of a few. Individually these cases are benign. As a group they compound complexity. Each new reform should be evaluated on both its benefits and the burden that it brings.
  - rekoil 2y ago
    Wholeheartedly agree. But we (as a society) have neglected the environment for far too fucking long now, some inconvenience for tiny gains is valid until we start seeing societal and environmental improvements.
- vidarh 2y ago
  If anything, I've come to like them because you now don't need to hold on to the cap.
- salawat 2y ago