9 ms·

Tell me more how all the money transfers are neoliberal? How the “creating of european idea” is neoliberal? How “we must have minimal taxes in europe” is neolib

by kvgr 2y ago

Tell me more how all the money transfers are neoliberal? How the “creating of european idea” is neoliberal? How “we must have minimal taxes in europe” is neoliberal. Industrial subsidies for car and aeroplane companies. Compulsary social and retirement policies. In EU socialism is the norm, everything outside is branded almost extreme right. And right is a bad word in EU. If you take right and cut out russian support, keep taxes and less money distribution, promote personal tesponsibility you are still extreme right.

pelorat 2y ago
Nothing you mentioned has anything to do with socialism.
- kvgr 2y ago
  Depends on the definition of socialism. For me the flow through retirement is socialist. The healthcare that forces people to pay money to non functioning system based on their income is socialist.
  - jamil7 2y ago
    Socialism has an actual definition though, so you don't need to make your own one up.
  - zemnl 2y ago
    > The healthcare that forces people to pay money to non functioning system based on their income is socialist. Non functioning? All EU countries with public healthcare score better than the US in the healthcare rankings (and life expectancy), by a good measure. And some of them are the best in the world. This [1] is just one source, you can find multiple ones with the same conclusion. [1] https://www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/ https://www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/
    - kvgr 2y ago
      Norway has huge oil reservers, Swiss healthcare is basically private. We could go deeper. NHS in UK is in the shambles for example. Switzerland has universal health care, regulated by the Swiss Federal Law on Health Insurance. There are no free state-provided health services, but private health insurance is compulsory for all persons residing in Switzerland (within three months of taking up residence or being born in the country). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland#:~:text=Switzerland%20has%20universal%20health%20care,being%20born%20in%20the%20country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland#:~:t...).
sofixa 2y ago
> If you take right and cut out russian support, keep taxes and less money distribution, promote personal tesponsibility you are still extreme right. That describes to a T the French party "Les Republicains", and nobody calls them far right. So no, you need the extremist "migrants bad" with zero nuance, heavy doses of populism with no foundation, promises of more money distribution (in France, the Front National is promising raising the minimum wage, bringing back the wealth tax, and other such populist "give money to the real people" things), and yes, lots of Russian support and money and dicksucking, and you get a classic European far-right party. > In EU socialism is the norm What is your definition of socialism? Considering the EU hasn't nationalised/EU-lised anything to control the means of production, I can guarantee you it's wrong. The EU is neoliberal in many aspects, like the railway packages, strict rules on country subsidies into many sectors (countries can no longer just bail out their national industries when they fail). But it isn't only neoliberal. Consumer protections with warranties, GDPR, Digital Markets and Services Acts, etc. aren't strictly neoliberal. I don't know why anyone would think something as complex as the EU can be described with a political label. Hell, most parties can barely be described with a single label, let alone a multi-government entity with many institutions and responsible for some of the greatest progress and unity the continent has ever seen.
- jorvi 2y ago
  > in France, the Front National is promising raising the minimum wage, bringing back the wealth tax, and other such populist "give money to the real people" things These are not populist things…
  - sofixa 2y ago
    If there's no plan on how to finance such things in one of the countries with the highest public spending as % of GDP, relatively high budget deficits, a high debt to GDP ratio, slipping credit rating, monstrous pension obligations and impending demographic slowdown... Yes they are. Empty bullshit being said because it's popular and easy to be said. No substance, no real plan, no real solutions.
- Vt71fcAqt7 2y ago
thrance 2y ago
Europe is constantly pushing for privatization of public sectors such as rail, electricty... Subsidies would be socialist if the people owned the companies that received them, which is absolutely not the case. All the money transfers and other policies you talk about are only carried out in the sole goal of evening out a playing field for the european private sector to compete in. You are right in that it is not exactly neoliberal, I believe the correct term is "ordoliberal".

by kvgr 2y ago

pelorat 2y ago

Nothing you mentioned has anything to do with socialism.

kvgr 2y ago
Depends on the definition of socialism. For me the flow through retirement is socialist. The healthcare that forces people to pay money to non functioning system based on their income is socialist.
- jamil7 2y ago
  Socialism has an actual definition though, so you don't need to make your own one up.
- zemnl 2y ago
  > The healthcare that forces people to pay money to non functioning system based on their income is socialist. Non functioning? All EU countries with public healthcare score better than the US in the healthcare rankings (and life expectancy), by a good measure. And some of them are the best in the world. This [1] is just one source, you can find multiple ones with the same conclusion. [1] https://www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/ https://www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/
  - kvgr 2y ago
    Norway has huge oil reservers, Swiss healthcare is basically private. We could go deeper. NHS in UK is in the shambles for example. Switzerland has universal health care, regulated by the Swiss Federal Law on Health Insurance. There are no free state-provided health services, but private health insurance is compulsory for all persons residing in Switzerland (within three months of taking up residence or being born in the country). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland#:~:text=Switzerland%20has%20universal%20health%20care,being%20born%20in%20the%20country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland#:~:t...).

sofixa 2y ago

> If you take right and cut out russian support, keep taxes and less money distribution, promote personal tesponsibility you are still extreme right. That describes to a T the French party "Les Republicains", and nobody calls them far right. So no, you need the extremist "migrants bad" with zero nuance, heavy doses of populism with no foundation, promises of more money distribution (in France, the Front National is promising raising the minimum wage, bringing back the wealth tax, and other such populist "give money to the real people" things), and yes, lots of Russian support and money and dicksucking, and you get a classic European far-right party. > In EU socialism is the norm What is your definition of socialism? Considering the EU hasn't nationalised/EU-lised anything to control the means of production, I can guarantee you it's wrong. The EU is neoliberal in many aspects, like the railway packages, strict rules on country subsidies into many sectors (countries can no longer just bail out their national industries when they fail). But it isn't only neoliberal. Consumer protections with warranties, GDPR, Digital Markets and Services Acts, etc. aren't strictly neoliberal. I don't know why anyone would think something as complex as the EU can be described with a political label. Hell, most parties can barely be described with a single label, let alone a multi-government entity with many institutions and responsible for some of the greatest progress and unity the continent has ever seen.

jorvi 2y ago
> in France, the Front National is promising raising the minimum wage, bringing back the wealth tax, and other such populist "give money to the real people" things These are not populist things…
- sofixa 2y ago
  If there's no plan on how to finance such things in one of the countries with the highest public spending as % of GDP, relatively high budget deficits, a high debt to GDP ratio, slipping credit rating, monstrous pension obligations and impending demographic slowdown... Yes they are. Empty bullshit being said because it's popular and easy to be said. No substance, no real plan, no real solutions.
Vt71fcAqt7 2y ago

thrance 2y ago

Europe is constantly pushing for privatization of public sectors such as rail, electricty... Subsidies would be socialist if the people owned the companies that received them, which is absolutely not the case. All the money transfers and other policies you talk about are only carried out in the sole goal of evening out a playing field for the european private sector to compete in. You are right in that it is not exactly neoliberal, I believe the correct term is "ordoliberal".