4 ms·

Socialist?? The EU is still primarily a neoliberalist institution, I can't think of a single socialist reform it upheld. It's all about enforcing privatization

Socialist?? The EU is still primarily a neoliberalist institution, I can't think of a single socialist reform it upheld. It's all about enforcing privatization of what wasn't yet and fostering economic competition among its members. Are you just throwing words you don't understand?

HPsquared 2y ago
Regional development, common agricultural policy, European social fund... There are many things that could be considered a bit socialist. All the directives regulating business, competition regulation too... EU is not really classical liberal or nationalist.
- ElDji 2y ago
  and considering the examples you cite, that's obviously a good thing, despite the fact that for most americans 'socialism' aims to be a scarecrow word.
  - admissionsguy 2y ago
    So good that it led to non existent growth except in third world immigration.
- mort96 2y ago
  In what way is regional development or common policy or regulating business "socialist" in any way?
  - HPsquared 2y ago
    Collective control over the means of production, and redistribution of wealth.
    - mort96 2y ago
      Oh, if your definition of "collective control over the means of production" is as broad as "there exists a governing body which creates and enforces policies which regulate the private sector", then I guess literally every single modern nation state style society is "socialist" in your eyes. I must say that's not the most useful definition, and certainly not what anyone who's a proponent of anything they call "socialism" means by "socialism".
      - HPsquared 2y ago
        Like "left/right", it's always a question of degree. There is no pure version of any system. I was responding to a comment that seems to think the EU policies have not a trace of socialism in them, which is incorrect. Edit: and the extent of EU regulations is quite enormous.
        emptysongglass 2y ago
        No, you are incorrect. There is nothing socialist about the EU. Production, distribution and exchange are not owned by the people. Elected bodies owning them is not socialist.
        HPsquared 2y ago
        Not even a little? It's all-or-nothing?
kvgr 2y ago
Tell me more how all the money transfers are neoliberal? How the “creating of european idea” is neoliberal? How “we must have minimal taxes in europe” is neoliberal. Industrial subsidies for car and aeroplane companies. Compulsary social and retirement policies. In EU socialism is the norm, everything outside is branded almost extreme right. And right is a bad word in EU. If you take right and cut out russian support, keep taxes and less money distribution, promote personal tesponsibility you are still extreme right.
- pelorat 2y ago
  Nothing you mentioned has anything to do with socialism.
  - kvgr 2y ago
    Depends on the definition of socialism. For me the flow through retirement is socialist. The healthcare that forces people to pay money to non functioning system based on their income is socialist.
    - jamil7 2y ago
      Socialism has an actual definition though, so you don't need to make your own one up.
    - zemnl 2y ago
      > The healthcare that forces people to pay money to non functioning system based on their income is socialist. Non functioning? All EU countries with public healthcare score better than the US in the healthcare rankings (and life expectancy), by a good measure. And some of them are the best in the world. This [1] is just one source, you can find multiple ones with the same conclusion. [1] https://www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/ https://www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/
      - kvgr 2y ago
        Norway has huge oil reservers, Swiss healthcare is basically private. We could go deeper. NHS in UK is in the shambles for example. Switzerland has universal health care, regulated by the Swiss Federal Law on Health Insurance. There are no free state-provided health services, but private health insurance is compulsory for all persons residing in Switzerland (within three months of taking up residence or being born in the country). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland#:~:text=Switzerland%20has%20universal%20health%20care,being%20born%20in%20the%20country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland#:~:t...).

HPsquared 2y ago

Regional development, common agricultural policy, European social fund... There are many things that could be considered a bit socialist. All the directives regulating business, competition regulation too... EU is not really classical liberal or nationalist.

ElDji 2y ago
and considering the examples you cite, that's obviously a good thing, despite the fact that for most americans 'socialism' aims to be a scarecrow word.
- admissionsguy 2y ago
  So good that it led to non existent growth except in third world immigration.
mort96 2y ago
In what way is regional development or common policy or regulating business "socialist" in any way?
- HPsquared 2y ago
  Collective control over the means of production, and redistribution of wealth.
  - mort96 2y ago
    Oh, if your definition of "collective control over the means of production" is as broad as "there exists a governing body which creates and enforces policies which regulate the private sector", then I guess literally every single modern nation state style society is "socialist" in your eyes. I must say that's not the most useful definition, and certainly not what anyone who's a proponent of anything they call "socialism" means by "socialism".
    - HPsquared 2y ago
      Like "left/right", it's always a question of degree. There is no pure version of any system. I was responding to a comment that seems to think the EU policies have not a trace of socialism in them, which is incorrect. Edit: and the extent of EU regulations is quite enormous.
      - emptysongglass 2y ago
        No, you are incorrect. There is nothing socialist about the EU. Production, distribution and exchange are not owned by the people. Elected bodies owning them is not socialist.
        HPsquared 2y ago
        Not even a little? It's all-or-nothing?

kvgr 2y ago

Tell me more how all the money transfers are neoliberal? How the “creating of european idea” is neoliberal? How “we must have minimal taxes in europe” is neoliberal. Industrial subsidies for car and aeroplane companies. Compulsary social and retirement policies. In EU socialism is the norm, everything outside is branded almost extreme right. And right is a bad word in EU. If you take right and cut out russian support, keep taxes and less money distribution, promote personal tesponsibility you are still extreme right.

pelorat 2y ago
Nothing you mentioned has anything to do with socialism.
- kvgr 2y ago
  Depends on the definition of socialism. For me the flow through retirement is socialist. The healthcare that forces people to pay money to non functioning system based on their income is socialist.
  - jamil7 2y ago
    Socialism has an actual definition though, so you don't need to make your own one up.
  - zemnl 2y ago
    > The healthcare that forces people to pay money to non functioning system based on their income is socialist. Non functioning? All EU countries with public healthcare score better than the US in the healthcare rankings (and life expectancy), by a good measure. And some of them are the best in the world. This [1] is just one source, you can find multiple ones with the same conclusion. [1] https://www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/ https://www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/
    - kvgr 2y ago
      Norway has huge oil reservers, Swiss healthcare is basically private. We could go deeper. NHS in UK is in the shambles for example. Switzerland has universal health care, regulated by the Swiss Federal Law on Health Insurance. There are no free state-provided health services, but private health insurance is compulsory for all persons residing in Switzerland (within three months of taking up residence or being born in the country). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland#:~:text=Switzerland%20has%20universal%20health%20care,being%20born%20in%20the%20country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland#:~:t...).