4 ms·

Not for the masses. They cannot be bothered and most likely don't care until it is too late. For the technologist, it is easy to circumvent in the private sphe

Not for the masses. They cannot be bothered and most likely don't care until it is too late. For the technologist, it is easy to circumvent in the private sphere of life at least. I foresee however, a digital ID that will be tied to all your essential services, that you will be required to have in order to live, and that's the tracking and communication point that will be used to get a hold of you. Kind of like the chinese social credit score, but in the EU of tomorrow, your digital EU idea will be the choking point. Do something out of line, and it can be revoked and with it, your bank, credit cards, health care, travel and other services.

tomalbrc 2y ago
[flagged]
- WitCanStain 2y ago
  Tinfoil? That is where we are headed. To handwave away concerns about where the current trajectory is going is very dismissive.
- largelady97 2y ago
  [flagged]
ben_w 2y ago
> but in the EU of tomorrow, your digital EU idea will be the choking point. Do something out of line, and it can be revoked and with it, your bank, credit cards, health care, travel and other services. I won't say that future will never happen only because "never" is a long time, but that's not happening in the foreseeable future. I'm in Germany right now, and theoretically my ID card can be used online. In practice, "Digitalisierung" is kinda a joke here, much like "paperless office". For example, I have to visit an office to activate that feature of my ID card, and another to tell them I've moved. During the pandemic, they briefly realised they didn't need to do that, then they forgot. Likewise with health, there's more than one health insurance provider just in Germany, let alone the whole EU, and if I move country (not just travel, move) my previous insurance isn't likely to work in the new place anyway — it would take substantial improvements before it would even be possible for someone to corrut it the way you're afraid of.
- Sander_Marechal 2y ago
  Germany is a lot less digital than the rest of Europe though. Germans by-and-large even refuse to use debit cards (pin&chip). It's so strange visiting Germany as a tourist and not being able to pay with my card in a restaurant for example.
  - Semaphor 2y ago
    > Germans by-and-large even refuse to use debit cards (pin&chip) I’d call that a minority, especially since Covid. > not being able to pay with my card in a restaurant for example An even smaller minority, especially for restaurants, slightly larger for non-chain fast food places that probably also cheat on taxes. I don’t carry cash with me and pay almost everything with my MC debit or AMEX credit card, even in cases I can’t do that, I’d be able to pay with girocard (non-MC/Visa debit card, a widespread local system) if I had one.
    - gambiting 2y ago
      >>An even smaller minority, especially for restaurants, slightly larger for non-chain fast food places that probably also cheat on taxes. Personal anecdote, but I've been travelling through Germany this winter and outside of motorway petrol stations and big supermarkets pretty much no one would accept my Visa/MasterCard cards - "EC Karten" only everywhere. We went to a big restaurant which I assumed would be ok because I could see the card terminal at the till, and at the end they told me it's EC Karten only - had to drive around at 11pm to find a working ATM just to withdraw some euro to pay them, while my wife and son waited at the restaurant - absolute nonsense.
      - Semaphor 2y ago
        Weird, I wonder if that’s the south? Up here in Lübeck, even the small stores now almost always accept everything thanks to the small SumUp terminals.
        2y ago

tomalbrc 2y ago

[flagged]

WitCanStain 2y ago
Tinfoil? That is where we are headed. To handwave away concerns about where the current trajectory is going is very dismissive.
largelady97 2y ago
[flagged]

ben_w 2y ago

> but in the EU of tomorrow, your digital EU idea will be the choking point. Do something out of line, and it can be revoked and with it, your bank, credit cards, health care, travel and other services. I won't say that future will never happen only because "never" is a long time, but that's not happening in the foreseeable future. I'm in Germany right now, and theoretically my ID card can be used online. In practice, "Digitalisierung" is kinda a joke here, much like "paperless office". For example, I have to visit an office to activate that feature of my ID card, and another to tell them I've moved. During the pandemic, they briefly realised they didn't need to do that, then they forgot. Likewise with health, there's more than one health insurance provider just in Germany, let alone the whole EU, and if I move country (not just travel, move) my previous insurance isn't likely to work in the new place anyway — it would take substantial improvements before it would even be possible for someone to corrut it the way you're afraid of.

Sander_Marechal 2y ago
Germany is a lot less digital than the rest of Europe though. Germans by-and-large even refuse to use debit cards (pin&chip). It's so strange visiting Germany as a tourist and not being able to pay with my card in a restaurant for example.
- Semaphor 2y ago
  > Germans by-and-large even refuse to use debit cards (pin&chip) I’d call that a minority, especially since Covid. > not being able to pay with my card in a restaurant for example An even smaller minority, especially for restaurants, slightly larger for non-chain fast food places that probably also cheat on taxes. I don’t carry cash with me and pay almost everything with my MC debit or AMEX credit card, even in cases I can’t do that, I’d be able to pay with girocard (non-MC/Visa debit card, a widespread local system) if I had one.
  - gambiting 2y ago
    >>An even smaller minority, especially for restaurants, slightly larger for non-chain fast food places that probably also cheat on taxes. Personal anecdote, but I've been travelling through Germany this winter and outside of motorway petrol stations and big supermarkets pretty much no one would accept my Visa/MasterCard cards - "EC Karten" only everywhere. We went to a big restaurant which I assumed would be ok because I could see the card terminal at the till, and at the end they told me it's EC Karten only - had to drive around at 11pm to find a working ATM just to withdraw some euro to pay them, while my wife and son waited at the restaurant - absolute nonsense.
    - Semaphor 2y ago
      Weird, I wonder if that’s the south? Up here in Lübeck, even the small stores now almost always accept everything thanks to the small SumUp terminals.
      - 2y ago