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Asking a large language model about facts is like asking an image model for photos. That's not what it's for, or what it does. It's a bit weird that we're buil

by boxed 2y ago

Asking a large language model about facts is like asking an image model for photos. That's not what it's for, or what it does. It's a bit weird that we're building tools that make the large scale pollution of the information space approach a marginal cost of zero. I get that it's a bit useful for artists, and for helping dyslexics write emails or whatever, but it's highly doubtful this will be worth it. We already have huge issues with humans being stupid, why would we insert this not-even-stupid noise into the information space?

seydor 2y ago
> That's not what it's for, or what it does. Then again, it has been marketed as such, and does not tell people that it's lying. Image models don't have that problem because they never claimed to answer truthfully.
- intended 2y ago
  I can’t wait to see what happens as the term info pollution gains transaction. We already know that generative performance degrades when they learn from generated data (don’t remember the exact findings).
- boxed 2y ago
  I think even calling it lying is too kind. It just has no relation to truth.
ADeerAppeared 2y ago
> why would we insert this not-even-stupid noise into the information space? Because US tech would "collapse" otherwise. Big Tech's stock price is entirely propped up by AI hype. Metaverse didn't go anywhere so they need a new bubble. US tech startups are even worse. The VC culture is completely incapable of building useful companies, AI is the last hype. Just a rat-race to grab the last funding and get bought out before the end of ZIRP kills the startup scene entirely. There's no real demand for any of this shit. Even the web spam renaissance is mostly hustle-bros losing money. The writing is already on the wall with investment slowing down, and AI product after AI product bombing.
- intended 2y ago
  Hey, collapse is unfair. Correct is better. They will go from trillions to slightly fewer trillions.
  - surfingdino 2y ago
    Some will go to jail.
    - KingMob 2y ago
      Why do you think this? Nobody will go to jail. Maybe some paltry fines will be paid and some CEOs ousted, and that's about it.
      - rsynnott 2y ago
        I mean, it's likely that _some_ fraud is going on, and that tends to become more apparent as the money runs out (for instance see SBF, or the various Ponzi schemes that ran out of road during the financial crisis), so when the AI bubble bursts, yeah, probably a few people will go to jail. But it doesn't seem like a significant factor.
      - surfingdino 2y ago
        Someone will oversell this. There is too much greed.
netsharc 2y ago
> large scale pollution of the information space It's incredible, this attention economy. Google anything and you'll have word-vomit articles that don't answer your question - something like "Actress XYZ boyfriend" and you get: > XYZ, XYZ has emerged as a rising star, captivating audiences with her talent and charm. While her professional life is an open book, her personal life remains a subject of intrigue. Join us as we delve into the untold love story of XYZ, exploring her journey from boyfriend to husband. With even a wrong headline photo of the actress, and zero information about her boyfriend/husband. At least the above paragraph is still coherent. Why? Because they can embed ads on the webpage, so they can earn money from Google...
- 0xEF 2y ago
  Can we admit that this was the state of the Internet content before LLMs and their introduction just accelerated and existing problem? I feel like the conversation around the information pollution is turning into "AI did it" and we need to take a lot more responsibility for letting it happen in the first place.
  - netsharc 2y ago
    I agree, it wasn't AI, or well, much stupider AI / bots that put words together (we had that before GPT - Were they AI? Just like a high-end Nokia was a "smartphone" before iPhone came along...). But this new AI is making it simpler and will probably accelerate the bullshit pollution. On that note, today I got 2 Instagram video ads of 2 different national politicians saying they're offering something to "just 50 people", and it was to me obviously deepfake videos. But there are vast numbers of people who will fall for this scam. But hey, at least these ads pays for Zuck's yachts (yeah he has two, 1 for him to enjoy and 1 behind it that carries supplies/sleeps guests)... https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mark-zuckerberg-buys-russian-s-300m-megayacht-a-shadow-vessel-to-go-with-it-230141.html https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mark-zuckerberg-buys-russ...
  - photonthug 2y ago
    Who is “we” here again? I’m not sure why even google engineers would want to take credit for management decisions to screw up search. And it’s deliberate because bad search results means more search! The approach I usually recommend for protest is.. use google exclusively to search for ChatGPT, then leave google. Since they haven’t heard users saying for the last decade that we pretty much prefer classic google search circa 2010 to the garbage engagement and growth hacking monster that they have become… perhaps they’ll hear this version of protest better.
surfingdino 2y ago
It's being adopted by organisations who should be guarding data integrity, preserve sources of truth, and pay utmost attention to PII or corporate and state secrets. I have to congratulate operators of genAI on their marketing prowess, but the results are really worrying and it's only going to get worse. We run real risk of serious disruption to the lives of people wrongly banned from access to shops and places, charged with offences they did not commit, their credit scores ruined and no straight path to rectify the situation. The tools that ought to be only used for academic research have been given to people with no background allowing them to understand how those tools work by cynical people looking to make a quick buck from chaos others will unleash on employees, patients, citizens. Meanwhile the AI operators have all the raw data and can do anything with it.
CTDOCodebases 2y ago
> We already have huge issues with humans being stupid, why would we insert this not-even-stupid noise into the information space? Because people will make money from it and the political will to resist such a thing does not exist. Besides the cat is already out of the bag.

by boxed 2y ago

seydor 2y ago

> That's not what it's for, or what it does. Then again, it has been marketed as such, and does not tell people that it's lying. Image models don't have that problem because they never claimed to answer truthfully.

intended 2y ago
I can’t wait to see what happens as the term info pollution gains transaction. We already know that generative performance degrades when they learn from generated data (don’t remember the exact findings).
boxed 2y ago
I think even calling it lying is too kind. It just has no relation to truth.

ADeerAppeared 2y ago

> why would we insert this not-even-stupid noise into the information space? Because US tech would "collapse" otherwise. Big Tech's stock price is entirely propped up by AI hype. Metaverse didn't go anywhere so they need a new bubble. US tech startups are even worse. The VC culture is completely incapable of building useful companies, AI is the last hype. Just a rat-race to grab the last funding and get bought out before the end of ZIRP kills the startup scene entirely. There's no real demand for any of this shit. Even the web spam renaissance is mostly hustle-bros losing money. The writing is already on the wall with investment slowing down, and AI product after AI product bombing.

intended 2y ago
Hey, collapse is unfair. Correct is better. They will go from trillions to slightly fewer trillions.
- surfingdino 2y ago
  Some will go to jail.
  - KingMob 2y ago
    Why do you think this? Nobody will go to jail. Maybe some paltry fines will be paid and some CEOs ousted, and that's about it.
    - rsynnott 2y ago
      I mean, it's likely that _some_ fraud is going on, and that tends to become more apparent as the money runs out (for instance see SBF, or the various Ponzi schemes that ran out of road during the financial crisis), so when the AI bubble bursts, yeah, probably a few people will go to jail. But it doesn't seem like a significant factor.
    - surfingdino 2y ago
      Someone will oversell this. There is too much greed.

netsharc 2y ago

> large scale pollution of the information space It's incredible, this attention economy. Google anything and you'll have word-vomit articles that don't answer your question - something like "Actress XYZ boyfriend" and you get: > XYZ, XYZ has emerged as a rising star, captivating audiences with her talent and charm. While her professional life is an open book, her personal life remains a subject of intrigue. Join us as we delve into the untold love story of XYZ, exploring her journey from boyfriend to husband. With even a wrong headline photo of the actress, and zero information about her boyfriend/husband. At least the above paragraph is still coherent. Why? Because they can embed ads on the webpage, so they can earn money from Google...

0xEF 2y ago
Can we admit that this was the state of the Internet content before LLMs and their introduction just accelerated and existing problem? I feel like the conversation around the information pollution is turning into "AI did it" and we need to take a lot more responsibility for letting it happen in the first place.
- netsharc 2y ago
  I agree, it wasn't AI, or well, much stupider AI / bots that put words together (we had that before GPT - Were they AI? Just like a high-end Nokia was a "smartphone" before iPhone came along...). But this new AI is making it simpler and will probably accelerate the bullshit pollution. On that note, today I got 2 Instagram video ads of 2 different national politicians saying they're offering something to "just 50 people", and it was to me obviously deepfake videos. But there are vast numbers of people who will fall for this scam. But hey, at least these ads pays for Zuck's yachts (yeah he has two, 1 for him to enjoy and 1 behind it that carries supplies/sleeps guests)... https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mark-zuckerberg-buys-russian-s-300m-megayacht-a-shadow-vessel-to-go-with-it-230141.html https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mark-zuckerberg-buys-russ...
- photonthug 2y ago
  Who is “we” here again? I’m not sure why even google engineers would want to take credit for management decisions to screw up search. And it’s deliberate because bad search results means more search! The approach I usually recommend for protest is.. use google exclusively to search for ChatGPT, then leave google. Since they haven’t heard users saying for the last decade that we pretty much prefer classic google search circa 2010 to the garbage engagement and growth hacking monster that they have become… perhaps they’ll hear this version of protest better.

surfingdino 2y ago

It's being adopted by organisations who should be guarding data integrity, preserve sources of truth, and pay utmost attention to PII or corporate and state secrets. I have to congratulate operators of genAI on their marketing prowess, but the results are really worrying and it's only going to get worse. We run real risk of serious disruption to the lives of people wrongly banned from access to shops and places, charged with offences they did not commit, their credit scores ruined and no straight path to rectify the situation. The tools that ought to be only used for academic research have been given to people with no background allowing them to understand how those tools work by cynical people looking to make a quick buck from chaos others will unleash on employees, patients, citizens. Meanwhile the AI operators have all the raw data and can do anything with it.

CTDOCodebases 2y ago

> We already have huge issues with humans being stupid, why would we insert this not-even-stupid noise into the information space? Because people will make money from it and the political will to resist such a thing does not exist. Besides the cat is already out of the bag.