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I fail to see any endgame that does not involve the legalization of most drugs. In the meantime, the cartels are using the endless cash from drug sales to estab

I fail to see any endgame that does not involve the legalization of most drugs. In the meantime, the cartels are using the endless cash from drug sales to establish more revenue streams and embed themselves deeper into society. Pablo Escobar died over 30 years ago and there are still enclaves in Medellin where he is revered due to the largess he was able to provide. Once you have a local population on your side, what can the police or military do? Not that there is much any police or military force can do against a well-funded guerilla insurgency. At a certain point, we have to give up the absurd fantasy that we can stop people from using drugs we don't like. We've had several generations to try, and plenty of money and liberty-bending laws to help in the goal, and what has that effort gotten us? Drugs have gotten cheaper, criminal enterprises have gotten stronger, our civil liberties have been degraded and we left ourselves wide open to the fentanyl epidemic. Plus, we're stuck paying out the ass for all the prisons we've filled up.

hombre_fatal 2y ago
Avocados are legal yet it doesn’t spare them from cartel control and violence. Organized crime has a hold in Mexico for many reasons, a critical one being that wages and purchasing power are so low there which foster corruption and reduce state power. The discussion of whether the legalization of some drugs are good for our society should be had independently of whatever the cartels are doing.
- lukan 2y ago
  But the major motivator for crime in mexico, is the easy money with drugs (especially because the alternatives are poor). So yes, even with all drugs legal, there will still be organized crime for prostitution and weapon smuggling, etc. but the crime organisations won't have bigger budgets then the police and army anymore From Wikipedia: "The Organization of American States estimated that the revenue for cocaine sales in the U.S. was $34 billion in 2013. "
- southernplaces7 2y ago
  The principal revenue source of all the major cartels is the drug trade, by far. They are diversifying but their real power to suborn the apparatus of the state and its officials in Mexico is backed by the revenues from narcotics. These organizations simply wouldn't be this pervasive or powerful if they lost that. Avacados don't buy all those officials and even if they did, it would be on a much more local, less dangerous scale. So in brief, your argument about the drug trade and the continuing illegality of drugs not being directly relevant to the cartels and their activity is wrong. I've been living down here for nearly two decades by the way and watching these things, so just a bit of contextual knowledge of how the situation works.
lupire 2y ago
How about investing in a free and safe Mexico, instead of letting warlords control it?
czl 2y ago
Yes, drug use and addiction is a medical issue and should be handled as a medical issue leaving no room for criminal groups to profit. That said society must educate its members about recreational drug use and its consequences. Education not laws should be used to stop people the use of recreational drugs. If murder or robbery happens normal laws should apply but if drug addiction is the cause those crimes should be treated like crimes committed by people with a mental disease.
- standardUser 2y ago
  I think true education begins when we start being honest. Our society and laws want to pretend there's a difference between alcohol and 'drugs' (and maybe weed gets its own deal too) and as long as our starting point is that delusional, people are never going to be able to make good decisions. In the meantime, we let alcohol flow like water and literally lock human beings in cages for a decade if they happen to prefer a different mind-altering substance.
  - czl 2y ago
    Recreational drugs can be highly addictive and lead to a loss of motivation for other activities, which is a key reason they are so dangerous, even beyond direct adverse health effects. While all drugs carry risks, those with more noticeable negative effects, like alcohol causing sickness and hangovers, may be somewhat less prone to severe addiction than drugs that provide a "cleaner" high. However, alcohol is still highly addictive for many despite the negatives. Drugs that can cause fatal overdose even with a single use are the most dangerous of all. When drugs are legalized, at a minimum there needs to be strong education efforts so people can understand the real effects and risks. For those who still choose to use potentially lethal drugs, there could be legal protocols for ensuring their affairs are in order such as a requirement to prepay their funerals.
Teever 2y ago
That will happen but we will still need to wipe cartels and other organized crime out. I see a future where either militaries or vigilante citizens release swarms of drones with facial recognition that either seek out the faces of gang members or the visible markers that they wear like face tattoos or biker patches. Organized crime won't go away totally but they won't be able to operate openly with such impunity.

hombre_fatal 2y ago

Avocados are legal yet it doesn’t spare them from cartel control and violence. Organized crime has a hold in Mexico for many reasons, a critical one being that wages and purchasing power are so low there which foster corruption and reduce state power. The discussion of whether the legalization of some drugs are good for our society should be had independently of whatever the cartels are doing.

lukan 2y ago
But the major motivator for crime in mexico, is the easy money with drugs (especially because the alternatives are poor). So yes, even with all drugs legal, there will still be organized crime for prostitution and weapon smuggling, etc. but the crime organisations won't have bigger budgets then the police and army anymore From Wikipedia: "The Organization of American States estimated that the revenue for cocaine sales in the U.S. was $34 billion in 2013. "
southernplaces7 2y ago
The principal revenue source of all the major cartels is the drug trade, by far. They are diversifying but their real power to suborn the apparatus of the state and its officials in Mexico is backed by the revenues from narcotics. These organizations simply wouldn't be this pervasive or powerful if they lost that. Avacados don't buy all those officials and even if they did, it would be on a much more local, less dangerous scale. So in brief, your argument about the drug trade and the continuing illegality of drugs not being directly relevant to the cartels and their activity is wrong. I've been living down here for nearly two decades by the way and watching these things, so just a bit of contextual knowledge of how the situation works.

lupire 2y ago

How about investing in a free and safe Mexico, instead of letting warlords control it?

czl 2y ago

Yes, drug use and addiction is a medical issue and should be handled as a medical issue leaving no room for criminal groups to profit. That said society must educate its members about recreational drug use and its consequences. Education not laws should be used to stop people the use of recreational drugs. If murder or robbery happens normal laws should apply but if drug addiction is the cause those crimes should be treated like crimes committed by people with a mental disease.

standardUser 2y ago
I think true education begins when we start being honest. Our society and laws want to pretend there's a difference between alcohol and 'drugs' (and maybe weed gets its own deal too) and as long as our starting point is that delusional, people are never going to be able to make good decisions. In the meantime, we let alcohol flow like water and literally lock human beings in cages for a decade if they happen to prefer a different mind-altering substance.
- czl 2y ago
  Recreational drugs can be highly addictive and lead to a loss of motivation for other activities, which is a key reason they are so dangerous, even beyond direct adverse health effects. While all drugs carry risks, those with more noticeable negative effects, like alcohol causing sickness and hangovers, may be somewhat less prone to severe addiction than drugs that provide a "cleaner" high. However, alcohol is still highly addictive for many despite the negatives. Drugs that can cause fatal overdose even with a single use are the most dangerous of all. When drugs are legalized, at a minimum there needs to be strong education efforts so people can understand the real effects and risks. For those who still choose to use potentially lethal drugs, there could be legal protocols for ensuring their affairs are in order such as a requirement to prepay their funerals.

Teever 2y ago

That will happen but we will still need to wipe cartels and other organized crime out. I see a future where either militaries or vigilante citizens release swarms of drones with facial recognition that either seek out the faces of gang members or the visible markers that they wear like face tattoos or biker patches. Organized crime won't go away totally but they won't be able to operate openly with such impunity.