4 ms·

U.S..D.A. Suspends Avocado Inspections in Mexico, Citing Security Concerns

59 points by NoRagrets 2y ago

timetraveller26 2y ago
Those avocado toasts are stained with blood
- kvonhorn 2y ago
  Is that why I'm paying $15/day for them?
- lupire 2y ago
  There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
  - nomel 2y ago
    What about the case where the farms are completely automated? What system has ethical consumption, with the ability to support the numbers we have now?
    - the_70x 2y ago
      Have you heard about draining the water reserves in the area and the amount of water avocado trees need?
      - nomel 2y ago
        "Draining the water reserves" isn't a requirement of growing, that just might be what's happening in that region. There are many places with an excess of water. I suppose next the claim will be the land used for those avocados should have been left to the other animals. I would extend this to its logical conclusion, and claim that conscious life isn't ethical. After all, any land you use, any water you drink, will be at the expense of another creature, stealing the fruits of a plant, or the nuts of a tree, etc. As a conscious entity, you're the only one that can choose, so choosing to not live is the only ethical choice. Is this the conclusion? I suppose something within the realm is technically accurate.
throwup238 2y ago
https://archive.ph/5ag1o https://archive.ph/5ag1o
hoppyhoppy2 2y ago
Gift Article link: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/world/americas/mexico-avocado-inspections-suspended.html?unlocked_article_code=1.0k0._5PV.AIJZ2IFlmD0B&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/world/americas/mexico-avo...
whalesalad 2y ago
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-11-20/mexico-cartel-violence-avocados https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-11-20/mexico...
readthenotes1 2y ago
It seems that Mexico can't be called a nation-state anymore as it no longer seems to have a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. It may claim to have such, but I'm not sure if the cartels pay any attention.
lukan 2y ago
"two U.S.D.A. inspectors had been illegally detained at a checkpoint run by community members. In Michoacán, which stretches from the mountains west of Mexico City to the Pacific Ocean, some Indigenous communities have set up security patrols to defend themselves against criminal groups." So it was not the drug cartels, but anti-cartel militas suspecting the inspectors to be connected to the cartels? Or what was their motivation? Just protecting their local turf/state? Did they know they were US avocado inspectors?
- chasd00 2y ago
  “Community members”… color me skeptical. Anyone standing in the way of the cartels is killed (plus their family and neighbors). Usually these checkpoints are setup looking for rival cartel members and shaking down locals. I suspect the inspectors refused to pay or failed to offer to pay to pass through.
  - sbaidon94 2y ago
    There is a history of local militias in Michoacán so this does not seem so far fetched. https://insightcrime.org/investigations/mexico-security-rise-militias-michoacan/ https://insightcrime.org/investigations/mexico-security-rise...
    - lukan 2y ago
      The cartels might also be smarter, than to mess with US inspectors. Because stopping the Avocado trade, does not make you friends at home.
  - southernplaces7 2y ago
    No, you're wrong. There are really community defense organizations and communities that have set up checkpoints against cartel violence. It's well known, well documented and there's even a link above to one particularly well known case of these organizations fighting the cartels. Some of them do eventually get infiltrated by gangs or turn into something similar, but not always. The idea that absolutely nobody stands in the way of the cartels is not only false but also paints an ignorantly defeatist narrative about their power. Even the apparatus of the state in Mexico could stand in their way, or crush them, but due to a complex multitude of factors, it doesn't and appears weaker than they are though it's in fact stronger and in a certain way the senior partner in the tacit arrangements cartels and formal authorities create.
standardUser 2y ago
I fail to see any endgame that does not involve the legalization of most drugs. In the meantime, the cartels are using the endless cash from drug sales to establish more revenue streams and embed themselves deeper into society. Pablo Escobar died over 30 years ago and there are still enclaves in Medellin where he is revered due to the largess he was able to provide. Once you have a local population on your side, what can the police or military do? Not that there is much any police or military force can do against a well-funded guerilla insurgency. At a certain point, we have to give up the absurd fantasy that we can stop people from using drugs we don't like. We've had several generations to try, and plenty of money and liberty-bending laws to help in the goal, and what has that effort gotten us? Drugs have gotten cheaper, criminal enterprises have gotten stronger, our civil liberties have been degraded and we left ourselves wide open to the fentanyl epidemic. Plus, we're stuck paying out the ass for all the prisons we've filled up.
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  Avocados are legal yet it doesn’t spare them from cartel control and violence. Organized crime has a hold in Mexico for many reasons, a critical one being that wages and purchasing power are so low there which foster corruption and reduce state power. The discussion of whether the legalization of some drugs are good for our society should be had independently of whatever the cartels are doing.
  - lukan 2y ago
    But the major motivator for crime in mexico, is the easy money with drugs (especially because the alternatives are poor). So yes, even with all drugs legal, there will still be organized crime for prostitution and weapon smuggling, etc. but the crime organisations won't have bigger budgets then the police and army anymore From Wikipedia: "The Organization of American States estimated that the revenue for cocaine sales in the U.S. was $34 billion in 2013. "
  - southernplaces7 2y ago
    The principal revenue source of all the major cartels is the drug trade, by far. They are diversifying but their real power to suborn the apparatus of the state and its officials in Mexico is backed by the revenues from narcotics. These organizations simply wouldn't be this pervasive or powerful if they lost that. Avacados don't buy all those officials and even if they did, it would be on a much more local, less dangerous scale. So in brief, your argument about the drug trade and the continuing illegality of drugs not being directly relevant to the cartels and their activity is wrong. I've been living down here for nearly two decades by the way and watching these things, so just a bit of contextual knowledge of how the situation works.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
DubsCheckum 2y ago
seems like news reporters forgot about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj5GqLtV69c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj5GqLtV69c

59 points by NoRagrets 2y ago

timetraveller26 2y ago

Those avocado toasts are stained with blood

kvonhorn 2y ago
Is that why I'm paying $15/day for them?
lupire 2y ago
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
- nomel 2y ago
  What about the case where the farms are completely automated? What system has ethical consumption, with the ability to support the numbers we have now?
  - the_70x 2y ago
    Have you heard about draining the water reserves in the area and the amount of water avocado trees need?
    - nomel 2y ago
      "Draining the water reserves" isn't a requirement of growing, that just might be what's happening in that region. There are many places with an excess of water. I suppose next the claim will be the land used for those avocados should have been left to the other animals. I would extend this to its logical conclusion, and claim that conscious life isn't ethical. After all, any land you use, any water you drink, will be at the expense of another creature, stealing the fruits of a plant, or the nuts of a tree, etc. As a conscious entity, you're the only one that can choose, so choosing to not live is the only ethical choice. Is this the conclusion? I suppose something within the realm is technically accurate.

throwup238 2y ago

https://archive.ph/5ag1o https://archive.ph/5ag1o

hoppyhoppy2 2y ago

Gift Article link: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/world/americas/mexico-avocado-inspections-suspended.html?unlocked_article_code=1.0k0._5PV.AIJZ2IFlmD0B&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/world/americas/mexico-avo...

whalesalad 2y ago

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-11-20/mexico-cartel-violence-avocados https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-11-20/mexico...

readthenotes1 2y ago

It seems that Mexico can't be called a nation-state anymore as it no longer seems to have a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. It may claim to have such, but I'm not sure if the cartels pay any attention.

lukan 2y ago

"two U.S.D.A. inspectors had been illegally detained at a checkpoint run by community members. In Michoacán, which stretches from the mountains west of Mexico City to the Pacific Ocean, some Indigenous communities have set up security patrols to defend themselves against criminal groups." So it was not the drug cartels, but anti-cartel militas suspecting the inspectors to be connected to the cartels? Or what was their motivation? Just protecting their local turf/state? Did they know they were US avocado inspectors?

chasd00 2y ago
“Community members”… color me skeptical. Anyone standing in the way of the cartels is killed (plus their family and neighbors). Usually these checkpoints are setup looking for rival cartel members and shaking down locals. I suspect the inspectors refused to pay or failed to offer to pay to pass through.
- sbaidon94 2y ago
  There is a history of local militias in Michoacán so this does not seem so far fetched. https://insightcrime.org/investigations/mexico-security-rise-militias-michoacan/ https://insightcrime.org/investigations/mexico-security-rise...
  - lukan 2y ago
    The cartels might also be smarter, than to mess with US inspectors. Because stopping the Avocado trade, does not make you friends at home.
- southernplaces7 2y ago
  No, you're wrong. There are really community defense organizations and communities that have set up checkpoints against cartel violence. It's well known, well documented and there's even a link above to one particularly well known case of these organizations fighting the cartels. Some of them do eventually get infiltrated by gangs or turn into something similar, but not always. The idea that absolutely nobody stands in the way of the cartels is not only false but also paints an ignorantly defeatist narrative about their power. Even the apparatus of the state in Mexico could stand in their way, or crush them, but due to a complex multitude of factors, it doesn't and appears weaker than they are though it's in fact stronger and in a certain way the senior partner in the tacit arrangements cartels and formal authorities create.

standardUser 2y ago

I fail to see any endgame that does not involve the legalization of most drugs. In the meantime, the cartels are using the endless cash from drug sales to establish more revenue streams and embed themselves deeper into society. Pablo Escobar died over 30 years ago and there are still enclaves in Medellin where he is revered due to the largess he was able to provide. Once you have a local population on your side, what can the police or military do? Not that there is much any police or military force can do against a well-funded guerilla insurgency. At a certain point, we have to give up the absurd fantasy that we can stop people from using drugs we don't like. We've had several generations to try, and plenty of money and liberty-bending laws to help in the goal, and what has that effort gotten us? Drugs have gotten cheaper, criminal enterprises have gotten stronger, our civil liberties have been degraded and we left ourselves wide open to the fentanyl epidemic. Plus, we're stuck paying out the ass for all the prisons we've filled up.

hombre_fatal 2y ago
Avocados are legal yet it doesn’t spare them from cartel control and violence. Organized crime has a hold in Mexico for many reasons, a critical one being that wages and purchasing power are so low there which foster corruption and reduce state power. The discussion of whether the legalization of some drugs are good for our society should be had independently of whatever the cartels are doing.
- lukan 2y ago
  But the major motivator for crime in mexico, is the easy money with drugs (especially because the alternatives are poor). So yes, even with all drugs legal, there will still be organized crime for prostitution and weapon smuggling, etc. but the crime organisations won't have bigger budgets then the police and army anymore From Wikipedia: "The Organization of American States estimated that the revenue for cocaine sales in the U.S. was $34 billion in 2013. "
- southernplaces7 2y ago
  The principal revenue source of all the major cartels is the drug trade, by far. They are diversifying but their real power to suborn the apparatus of the state and its officials in Mexico is backed by the revenues from narcotics. These organizations simply wouldn't be this pervasive or powerful if they lost that. Avacados don't buy all those officials and even if they did, it would be on a much more local, less dangerous scale. So in brief, your argument about the drug trade and the continuing illegality of drugs not being directly relevant to the cartels and their activity is wrong. I've been living down here for nearly two decades by the way and watching these things, so just a bit of contextual knowledge of how the situation works.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

DubsCheckum 2y ago

seems like news reporters forgot about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj5GqLtV69c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj5GqLtV69c