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Everything you wrote is currently true. That said, Signal can no longer claim to be privacy-focused if they submit to these demands, and if they refuse (as the

Everything you wrote is currently true. That said, Signal can no longer claim to be privacy-focused if they submit to these demands, and if they refuse (as they've indicated is their plan), they'll lose a huge user segment, and the network effects that keep them dominant will weaken. Something will have to change.

stavros 2y ago
Signal aims to be as secure as possible while still being usable. Under those constraints, it's doing really well, as I have friends and family who use it. In contrast, not a single person I've ever met IRL uses Matrix.
- greyface- 2y ago
  > Under those constraints, it's doing really well Yes. Currently. If all non-sideloading EU users get locked out, can you really continue to say this?
  - stavros 2y ago
    No, but making Signal decentralized won't change anything. It'll still just be banned from the app stores, and whether it uses a central server or not won't matter at all.
    - greyface- 2y ago
      Centralization isn't just about the network architecture. A decentralized system wouldn't have a single organization or app whose neck can be strangled by the state or Apple/Google. I acknowledge that the current app store gatekeeper model makes this difficult to implement or even imagine. I also acknowledge that this is difficult to reconcile with the Signal Foundation's implicit 'institutional imperative' to continue existing as a central supporting party. I understand the "ecosystem is moving" usability / anti-ossification argument for centralization; it's just that the cost of centralization, when operating under the authority of someone who opposes privacy, is privacy.
      - Krasnol 2y ago
        I don't understand what you want to say here. A decentralized app will come under the same pressure from lawmakers as a centralized. Other ways of delivery have to be established for both. So in the end, you can just ignore that argument. What remains is that Signal is more popular with the average person who needs safe messaging. A fact that will remain even if this law passes. PS. https://signal.org/android/apk/ https://signal.org/android/apk/ it updates without play store access too.
    - DANmode 2y ago
      But...we all already have it. Can't the app update itself? Is that F-Droid-only functionality?

stavros 2y ago

Signal aims to be as secure as possible while still being usable. Under those constraints, it's doing really well, as I have friends and family who use it. In contrast, not a single person I've ever met IRL uses Matrix.

greyface- 2y ago
> Under those constraints, it's doing really well Yes. Currently. If all non-sideloading EU users get locked out, can you really continue to say this?
- stavros 2y ago
  No, but making Signal decentralized won't change anything. It'll still just be banned from the app stores, and whether it uses a central server or not won't matter at all.
  - greyface- 2y ago
    Centralization isn't just about the network architecture. A decentralized system wouldn't have a single organization or app whose neck can be strangled by the state or Apple/Google. I acknowledge that the current app store gatekeeper model makes this difficult to implement or even imagine. I also acknowledge that this is difficult to reconcile with the Signal Foundation's implicit 'institutional imperative' to continue existing as a central supporting party. I understand the "ecosystem is moving" usability / anti-ossification argument for centralization; it's just that the cost of centralization, when operating under the authority of someone who opposes privacy, is privacy.
    - Krasnol 2y ago
      I don't understand what you want to say here. A decentralized app will come under the same pressure from lawmakers as a centralized. Other ways of delivery have to be established for both. So in the end, you can just ignore that argument. What remains is that Signal is more popular with the average person who needs safe messaging. A fact that will remain even if this law passes. PS. https://signal.org/android/apk/ https://signal.org/android/apk/ it updates without play store access too.
  - DANmode 2y ago
    But...we all already have it. Can't the app update itself? Is that F-Droid-only functionality?