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I'm sure that consciousness is a spectrum and that big mammals are near us on it, if there's any difference at all except for intelligence levels. At the same

by wruza 2y ago

I'm sure that consciousness is a spectrum and that big mammals are near us on it, if there's any difference at all except for intelligence levels. At the same time I have no issues with animal resource factories. I justify their existence by the fact that I'm a carnivore and needed meat and fats to properly operate since forever, no need for complex philosophy here. The necessity to justify that against ethics usually means you got way deeper into it than is reasonable.

lukan 2y ago
Are you sure, you need meet? Personally, I know I want meat and I know I despise the meat factories. But there are alternatives, cattle raised on actual grass. Or game from the forest. More expensive, but I don't need nor want meat every day. edit: with meat factories I did not talk about industrial packaging of meat. That is fine. What is not fine with me, is having living animals on conveyor belts, who never see the sun or feel the earth.
delecti 2y ago
If you're human, you aren't an obligate carnivore, because humans can live healthily on a fully vegan diet. Animal products (meat, dairy, eggs) certainly gave pre-industrial humans a big boost as a dense and (at times) readily available source of calories and protein, but that's a far cry from "needing" it. Modern usage of animal products for food is purely for convenience and pleasure. A point could be made that that's sufficent, but it's objectively not necessary.
- wruza 2y ago
  I don't feel good without meat, and good substitutes are less available. But my main point (which I started to write above but seemingly decided to omit, to my own confusion) is that this fear-cold-hunger-devour-alive-die-young bs is how wild nature works every day for eons. I am its creature and should see no guilt except for true sadism. I agree with regulating bad farms away, but suffering through reduction of my already small demand to zero barely helps anything.
  - lukan 2y ago
    Yes, little animal babies get happily eaten by predators every day. But they did not put them in cold metal boxes before to rot in their own shit.

by wruza 2y ago

lukan 2y ago

Are you sure, you need meet? Personally, I know I want meat and I know I despise the meat factories. But there are alternatives, cattle raised on actual grass. Or game from the forest. More expensive, but I don't need nor want meat every day. edit: with meat factories I did not talk about industrial packaging of meat. That is fine. What is not fine with me, is having living animals on conveyor belts, who never see the sun or feel the earth.

delecti 2y ago

If you're human, you aren't an obligate carnivore, because humans can live healthily on a fully vegan diet. Animal products (meat, dairy, eggs) certainly gave pre-industrial humans a big boost as a dense and (at times) readily available source of calories and protein, but that's a far cry from "needing" it. Modern usage of animal products for food is purely for convenience and pleasure. A point could be made that that's sufficent, but it's objectively not necessary.

wruza 2y ago
I don't feel good without meat, and good substitutes are less available. But my main point (which I started to write above but seemingly decided to omit, to my own confusion) is that this fear-cold-hunger-devour-alive-die-young bs is how wild nature works every day for eons. I am its creature and should see no guilt except for true sadism. I agree with regulating bad farms away, but suffering through reduction of my already small demand to zero barely helps anything.
- lukan 2y ago
  Yes, little animal babies get happily eaten by predators every day. But they did not put them in cold metal boxes before to rot in their own shit.