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Now that you mention it, I don't remember any Biblical support for animals not being conscious. Humans being special, yes - animals being unconscious automata,

by jprete 2y ago

Now that you mention it, I don't remember any Biblical support for animals not being conscious. Humans being special, yes - animals being unconscious automata, no. A quick Google search suggests the opposite conclusion can very easily be drawn, although I see no reason to elaborate on those arguments here.

FrustratedMonky 2y ago
Maybe "Biblical Support" as in a strict reading of the bible . But definitely Christians have 'interpreted' the Bible in ways to minimize animals as sub-human, without souls, no spirit, etc... These discussions are ancient times stand-ins for what today we might label 'consciousness'. To say the bible didn't strictly discuss 'consciousness' or 'automata' is ignoring that Christians think 'self' resides in the 'soul' so if animals don't' have them, then what are they? automata seems logical, but they didn't have the word for it. What is something that moves around but doesn't have a soul to move it?
- RoyalHenOil 2y ago
  Historically, Christians believed that animals had souls. The soul was a necessary requirement for animate life. This was the idea behind spontaneous generation, for example: souls find their way into rotting meat and maggots are born.
- jprete 2y ago
  I expect that most ancient people believed that animals were conscious. It's impossible to spend a lot of time with any mammal and think of it as not being aware of anything. For what it's worth, my Googling suggested that the Bible leans in the direction of animals having souls and going to the afterlife, as well.
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    Of course there are a million opinions on the Bible. I would have said on my quick search it is opposite, animals aren't conscious. But these are rough searches. My experience with American Christians, Catholic, Southern Baptist, is that animals don't have souls, and are not conscious. But, there is some cute story about some cute kid asking the Pope if dogs go to heaven, and he said 'good dogs'. So that might have accidentally opened the doors.
- psychoslave 2y ago
  That’s actually an interesting case of using LLM: statically what is the mundane perspective of a religious perspective. Here is a prompt to play with: In Abrahamic religions, what is the ontological status of animals in general and other life forms? Are they considered generally equals or sometime far superiors?
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    I plugged in your prompt In Abrahamic religions—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam—the ontological status of animals and other life forms generally places them as part of God's creation, but humans are typically seen as having a unique, superior status. Here's a brief overview of each religion's perspective: ### Judaism In Judaism, the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) describes God creating animals and humans, with humans given dominion over animals. This is based on the Genesis narrative: - *Genesis 1:26-28*: God gives humans dominion over all living creatures. - *Genesis 2:19-20*: Adam names the animals, indicating a role of stewardship and authority. While animals are respected and their welfare is considered (e.g., the commandment to not cause unnecessary suffering, tsa'ar ba'alei chayim), humans are seen as having a special role and responsibility. ### Christianity Christianity inherits much of its view on animals from Judaism, with additional interpretations from the New Testament: - *Genesis 1:26-28*: Same as in Judaism, humans are given dominion over animals. - *New Testament*: Jesus emphasizes the value of every creature (e.g., Matthew 10:29-31 where sparrows are valued by God), but humans are considered more valuable. Christian thought often emphasizes stewardship and care for God's creation, including animals, but maintains the superiority of humans. ### Islam In Islam, animals are also seen as part of God's creation with humans given a special status and responsibility: - *Qur'an 6:38*: Animals are considered communities like humans and are part of God's creation. - *Qur'an 16:5-8*: Animals are created for human benefit, but humans must treat them with kindness and care. Humans are considered superior and responsible for stewardship of the Earth and its creatures, but there is an emphasis on compassion and justice towards animals. ### Comparative Perspective - *Equality and Superiority*: In all three religions, humans are generally considered superior to animals due to their unique role and responsibilities assigned by God. Animals are valued and their welfare is important, but they do not have the same status as humans. - *Stewardship*: There is a common theme of stewardship and responsible dominion, where humans are expected to care for and protect animals and the environment. - *Respect for Life*: Despite the hierarchical view, all three religions emphasize respect for life and the importance of treating animals humanely. Overall, animals and other life forms are respected and valued in Abrahamic religions, but humans are considered to have a unique, superior status with specific duties towards other creatures.
datadrivenangel 2y ago
“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.” Genesis 1:26 King James Bible Don't believe the bible weighs in on animal consciousness. It does weigh in on the question of our use of animals. Modernity believes that consciousness is special, and that we should not eat or use conscious animals, thus, if the bible says that we can eat cows, cows must not be conscious otherwise the bible would be condoning immoral behavior. It's a logical jump, but it is correct moral reasoning based on the premise that consciousness is special.

by jprete 2y ago

FrustratedMonky 2y ago

Maybe "Biblical Support" as in a strict reading of the bible . But definitely Christians have 'interpreted' the Bible in ways to minimize animals as sub-human, without souls, no spirit, etc... These discussions are ancient times stand-ins for what today we might label 'consciousness'. To say the bible didn't strictly discuss 'consciousness' or 'automata' is ignoring that Christians think 'self' resides in the 'soul' so if animals don't' have them, then what are they? automata seems logical, but they didn't have the word for it. What is something that moves around but doesn't have a soul to move it?

RoyalHenOil 2y ago
Historically, Christians believed that animals had souls. The soul was a necessary requirement for animate life. This was the idea behind spontaneous generation, for example: souls find their way into rotting meat and maggots are born.
jprete 2y ago
I expect that most ancient people believed that animals were conscious. It's impossible to spend a lot of time with any mammal and think of it as not being aware of anything. For what it's worth, my Googling suggested that the Bible leans in the direction of animals having souls and going to the afterlife, as well.
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  Of course there are a million opinions on the Bible. I would have said on my quick search it is opposite, animals aren't conscious. But these are rough searches. My experience with American Christians, Catholic, Southern Baptist, is that animals don't have souls, and are not conscious. But, there is some cute story about some cute kid asking the Pope if dogs go to heaven, and he said 'good dogs'. So that might have accidentally opened the doors.
psychoslave 2y ago
That’s actually an interesting case of using LLM: statically what is the mundane perspective of a religious perspective. Here is a prompt to play with: In Abrahamic religions, what is the ontological status of animals in general and other life forms? Are they considered generally equals or sometime far superiors?
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  I plugged in your prompt In Abrahamic religions—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam—the ontological status of animals and other life forms generally places them as part of God's creation, but humans are typically seen as having a unique, superior status. Here's a brief overview of each religion's perspective: ### Judaism In Judaism, the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) describes God creating animals and humans, with humans given dominion over animals. This is based on the Genesis narrative: - *Genesis 1:26-28*: God gives humans dominion over all living creatures. - *Genesis 2:19-20*: Adam names the animals, indicating a role of stewardship and authority. While animals are respected and their welfare is considered (e.g., the commandment to not cause unnecessary suffering, tsa'ar ba'alei chayim), humans are seen as having a special role and responsibility. ### Christianity Christianity inherits much of its view on animals from Judaism, with additional interpretations from the New Testament: - *Genesis 1:26-28*: Same as in Judaism, humans are given dominion over animals. - *New Testament*: Jesus emphasizes the value of every creature (e.g., Matthew 10:29-31 where sparrows are valued by God), but humans are considered more valuable. Christian thought often emphasizes stewardship and care for God's creation, including animals, but maintains the superiority of humans. ### Islam In Islam, animals are also seen as part of God's creation with humans given a special status and responsibility: - *Qur'an 6:38*: Animals are considered communities like humans and are part of God's creation. - *Qur'an 16:5-8*: Animals are created for human benefit, but humans must treat them with kindness and care. Humans are considered superior and responsible for stewardship of the Earth and its creatures, but there is an emphasis on compassion and justice towards animals. ### Comparative Perspective - *Equality and Superiority*: In all three religions, humans are generally considered superior to animals due to their unique role and responsibilities assigned by God. Animals are valued and their welfare is important, but they do not have the same status as humans. - *Stewardship*: There is a common theme of stewardship and responsible dominion, where humans are expected to care for and protect animals and the environment. - *Respect for Life*: Despite the hierarchical view, all three religions emphasize respect for life and the importance of treating animals humanely. Overall, animals and other life forms are respected and valued in Abrahamic religions, but humans are considered to have a unique, superior status with specific duties towards other creatures.

datadrivenangel 2y ago

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.” Genesis 1:26 King James Bible Don't believe the bible weighs in on animal consciousness. It does weigh in on the question of our use of animals. Modernity believes that consciousness is special, and that we should not eat or use conscious animals, thus, if the bible says that we can eat cows, cows must not be conscious otherwise the bible would be condoning immoral behavior. It's a logical jump, but it is correct moral reasoning based on the premise that consciousness is special.