18 ms·

Loop: Open-source macOS window manager

177 points by edu 2y ago

rpgbr 2y ago
Am I the only one who gave up and embraced the messy windows spread all over the desktop? (Used to use Rectangle.) It's kinda liberating, tbh.
- danhau 2y ago
  No, not me. I long for a tiling window manager. It‘s not a phase, mom!
- Keirmot 2y ago
  I too thrive in that chaos.
freeqaz 2y ago
Previous thread from about 2 weeks ago on a related topic (another tiling WM)[0]. I'm a big fan of the i3-like modes. What is the draw for people towards a window manager like this? 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40596689 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40596689
ptdorf 2y ago
Pass. https://www.hammerspoon.org/ https://www.hammerspoon.org/ is a true hacker's toolbox, not just for window management. And all scripted with Lua.
jiveturkey 2y ago
more of a window resizing plugin, not a "window manager" at all. i guess that's what the mac users have gotten to calling these things though. how is it different than BetterSnap and the army of similar tools? and more important, how is it better. is the differentiator that it is the only open source such plugin? these advantages should be highlighted in the README, and the screen movie thing should show them. i only see half screen tiling demoed, this has existed for a long time with any number of tools. also how will it differ from sequoia. AFAICT the unique thing here is the radial menu. i do like that a lot.
evadk8 2y ago
yet another wm but I use yabai.
edu 2y ago
Just found about it on X[1], and I'm quite impressed for how well it looks and work. A great improvement over Rectangle and other options I've tried at some point. 1. https://x.com/JaceThings/status/1802996092616786259 https://x.com/JaceThings/status/1802996092616786259
luckman212 2y ago
Been waiting for 1.0.0 for a bit. This is super nice!
10729287 2y ago
Very impressive. I've been a very happy rectangle user for few years now but this new app is way more intuitive and visual. Good job guys ! Would love to be able to control the max size of the "maximize" behavior as I like to have the app in-focus to only fill 50% of my screen. Again, good job guys, it's very impressive and it already replaced Rectangle here !
- 10729287 2y ago
  Update : Controling the max size can be achieved with a custom setting... and it's beautifully done. Give it a try, that app is absolutely perfect already. The mouse setting is really fast and very efficient. Congratulation to the team.
tiffanyh 2y ago
I always love indie apps and never want to discourage creators. Some unsolicited advice though … given macOS in a few month time will have Window Tiling natively built in - you might want to articulate how Loop is different/better. https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/12/macos-sequoia-window-tiling/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/12/macos-sequoia-window-ti...
- trevyn 2y ago
  [flagged]
- MrKai77 2y ago
  Actually, macOS Sequoia only has halves, maximize and quarters as resize options, and has very limited keyboard shortcuts. Some people will be happy with it, and some will need more. Loop is very flexible in terms of making custom window sizes, keybinds, cycles etc., and is perfect for those who need more!
  - insane_dreamer 2y ago
    But expect Apple to add more features. I would be careful on staking a business plan on the current lack of windowing features in MacOS or you could find the rug pulled out from under you. Good luck!
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - moritzwarhier 2y ago
    As long as I can assign useful keyboard shortcuts, that's enough for me and hits the sweet spot (hello Windows 7!). I don't use the more advanced Rectangle features either.
  - pegasus 2y ago
    Good to know. As someone with only mild interest in window managers, my first thought was that this will probably be obsoleted by the coming feature GP refers to. So GP is right, your explanation on the product page would be useful for at least some of us.
xs83 2y ago
I have been a long term Rectangle user on Mac and a WinSplitRevolution for decades on Windows, my biggest preference as a developer is for it to be keyboard centric. I love the use of a numpad as a positional reference for the screen. Hotkey + NumPad 6 = right side of screen full Hotkey + NumPad 5 = full screen Hotkey + Numpad 1 = Bottom left Quarter Repeated presses of these cycle between Half, 3rd and Quarter This reminds me of the Crysis UI which I still love as a weapon / armor switcher :)
- SoftBred 2y ago
  Loop can actually be strictly keyboard centric if you want too. It's all fully customisable. I too only use the keyboard
  - xs83 2y ago
    Nice!
fizlebit 2y ago
Any chance of a window manager that lets you alt tab between windows instead of between applications. So Alt-tab-tab-tab takes you 3 windows ago, not 3 applications ago, or worse 1 application ago and 2 unrelated windows of that application? Man I really mis application menus being at the top of windows and being able to layer different windows from different applications in any order that I wish. VNC screen connections just make it into an even worse jumble.
- aloer 2y ago
  macOS has built in shortcuts to switch through windows of the currently focused application. I have it reconfigured to alt+tab This is not exactly what you are looking for but I personally like it more this way. So for example, I can switch between editor and browser via cmd tab but then I can cycle through browser windows via alt tab. These are two separate actions and it prevents me from having to cycle too much (compared to a solution that cycles through all windows of all applications) Also helps to build temporal and spatial muscle memory. The first browser window is the main one, the next one was the one before that and so on
- janci 2y ago
  Wait, what? Are all windows of an application positioned in the same layer on macOS?
  - notpushkin 2y ago
    Yeah, when you press ⌘ Tab, you are switching between applications (and ⌘ ` switches between windows of the applications). Super weird IMO.
    - yodon 2y ago
      The behavior dates back to the original Mac, which could only context switch between applications via a hack that simulated multitasking (the days of 128K memory, etc.)
      - 2y ago
jasonrm 2y ago
Open-source, except for the "new framework used to make Loop's settings window", so don't expect to build from source. https://github.com/MrKai77/Loop/issues/406 https://github.com/MrKai77/Loop/issues/406
- MrKai77 2y ago
  As stated in the comment on GitHub, Luminare will only be accessible by sponsors. If you have financial restrictions or are not able to sponsor me, I am open to giving the you the source code. However, this is all in order to make Loop more profitable, as I have put all my free time into making it. I hope you understand :)
  - jimrandomh 2y ago
    If you need to go proprietary to make enough money that's fine, but this is not open source and in particular it is not compatible with the GPLv3 license stated in the README. You have likely already given some users the right to redistribute Luminaire under GPLv3.
  - sshine 2y ago
    I don't think anyone disputes rewarding individuals for software they provide to their patrons. I hope you prosper! But "open source to those who pay" is quite a stretch of the definition. If you check Open Source Initiative's list of approved licenses, you won't find anything that fits this definition: https://opensource.org/licenses https://opensource.org/licenses The closest I know to what you're describing is Business Source License (BSL): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Source_License https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Source_License > The Business Source License (SPDX id BUSL) is a software license which publishes source code but limits the right to use the software to certain classes of users. The BUSL is not an open-source license, but it is source-available license that also mandates an eventual transition to an open-source license. This characteristic has been described as a compromise between traditional proprietary licenses and open source.
    - Spivak 2y ago
adamomada 2y ago
A similar mouse/trackpad-based window manager: https://deniz.co/penc/ https://deniz.co/penc/
stared 2y ago
I am a big fan of Divvy (https://mizage.com/divvy/)—while https://mizage.com/divvy/)—while both dated and paid, it has a wonderful feature of a visual tile map you can use. In all other cases I know, there are a bunch of shortcuts to make a window upper-top or something. But in many cases, it is not enough, as I need fine-grain control.
- jasonrm 2y ago
  Divvy thankfully still works without issue and I love it, but when Apple drops Intel support via Rosetta it's going to be a sad day. https://thelasso.app https://thelasso.app gets close, and adds more features (or visual clutter, imo), but still doesn't feel as quick and efficient to use when setting positions for multiple windows quickly. Divvy can be configured to stay open, and because it's always centered on each monitor, for some reason I can find it better than Lasso that opens where the mouse currently is.
krembo 2y ago
I really like Divvy for window management which takes a different approach from most of the others https://apps.apple.com/fi/app/divvy-window-manager/id413857545?mt=12 https://apps.apple.com/fi/app/divvy-window-manager/id4138575...
jerieljan 2y ago
Swish is the one that solved this problem for me. Feels similar to Loop and Penc, but is primarily trackpad-driven, but also customizable with modifier keys for additional functions. I wish it had more updates, but at least its core features have worked reliably. You don't even press the keyboard to start, but you position the mouse over the window's titlebar and just use two-finger swipes. The website's homepage does a better job demonstrating it under a minute. https://highlyopinionated.co/swish/ https://highlyopinionated.co/swish/
gigatexal 2y ago
i love that there's work on this happening -- there are a lot of projects in this space: magnet, rectangle, yabai, this one, others I've forgotten to name (sorry!) i just can't wait until i can get tiling like i3 has on linux stacking, tabbed, infinite auto tiling, all keyboard driven with some mouse support all things i miss on macos :(
- MrKai77 2y ago
  Not related to Loop, but I'd suggest that you take a look at https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace if you haven't already!
  - zaphodias 2y ago
    I've been loving Aerospace. Is as close as i3wm you can get, on Mac OS.
  - gigatexal 2y ago
    Will do!
rcarmo 2y ago
FYI, I've been keeping a list here: https://taoofmac.com/space/apps/window_managers https://taoofmac.com/space/apps/window_managers
- shepherdjerred 2y ago
  Do you have a favorite?
  - rcarmo 2y ago
    Moom or Amethyst, depending on whether I need tiling or not.
- suralind 2y ago
  Surprised you don't have yabai on the list.
  - rcarmo 2y ago
    I don’t want to incentivize people to disable System Integrity Protection.
    - suralind 2y ago
      It doesn't require it for this functionality. SIP is needed for some additional features afaik.
- akie 2y ago
  You can add https://www.irradiatedsoftware.com/sizeup/ https://www.irradiatedsoftware.com/sizeup/ - commercial though
Scotrix 2y ago
Will test it and see if it’s a replacement for Magnet. I have another very annoying issue with 3 screens which recover from energy saving after sleep slightly delayed and screw up my window positioning once in a while where all open windows end up on the main screen (I’m using spaces + a single desktop for all screens). Does anyone know about a solution / tool here which rearranges windows on a previous saved state prior to sleep and waits until all screens are back detected before arranging them again?
- lurkersince2013 2y ago
  Oh yes, I forgot how much of a pain that is. It’s so frustrating. I’ve been using this for the last couple of years and forgot it was even an issue: https://cordlessdog.com/stay/ https://cordlessdog.com/stay/
swah 2y ago
Very good implementation, congrats! I mostly use a few commands from Raycast these days (next display is super cool) but will try this one for dragging.
outime 2y ago
The title should be edited, this is only partially open-source.
- MrKai77 2y ago
  Now fully open-source :)
ferrantim 2y ago
Gonna have to try this. Been using bettersnaptool for years.
csmeyer 2y ago
How does this compare to magnet? Magnet has worked well for me for years, although recently I was trying to clean up my menu bar and realized there was no way to remove the menu bar icon. I’ll ask for some advice on that here actually since there are some Mac experts, is there some terminal incantation to remove a menu bar item?
rco8786 2y ago
Is this strictly mouse controlled? I use Divvy with a set of keyboard shortcuts to toss my windows around, and would be open to exploring a newer option...but not if it requires me to use the mouse.
- MrKai77 2y ago
  Loop is fully usable via the keyboard!

177 points by edu 2y ago

Am I the only one who gave up and embraced the messy windows spread all over the desktop? (Used to use Rectangle.) It's kinda liberating, tbh.

danhau 2y ago
No, not me. I long for a tiling window manager. It‘s not a phase, mom!
Keirmot 2y ago
I too thrive in that chaos.

freeqaz 2y ago

Previous thread from about 2 weeks ago on a related topic (another tiling WM)[0]. I'm a big fan of the i3-like modes. What is the draw for people towards a window manager like this? 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40596689 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40596689

ptdorf 2y ago

Pass. https://www.hammerspoon.org/ https://www.hammerspoon.org/ is a true hacker's toolbox, not just for window management. And all scripted with Lua.

jiveturkey 2y ago

more of a window resizing plugin, not a "window manager" at all. i guess that's what the mac users have gotten to calling these things though. how is it different than BetterSnap and the army of similar tools? and more important, how is it better. is the differentiator that it is the only open source such plugin? these advantages should be highlighted in the README, and the screen movie thing should show them. i only see half screen tiling demoed, this has existed for a long time with any number of tools. also how will it differ from sequoia. AFAICT the unique thing here is the radial menu. i do like that a lot.

evadk8 2y ago

yet another wm but I use yabai.

edu 2y ago

Just found about it on X[1], and I'm quite impressed for how well it looks and work. A great improvement over Rectangle and other options I've tried at some point. 1. https://x.com/JaceThings/status/1802996092616786259 https://x.com/JaceThings/status/1802996092616786259

luckman212 2y ago

Been waiting for 1.0.0 for a bit. This is super nice!

10729287 2y ago

Very impressive. I've been a very happy rectangle user for few years now but this new app is way more intuitive and visual. Good job guys ! Would love to be able to control the max size of the "maximize" behavior as I like to have the app in-focus to only fill 50% of my screen. Again, good job guys, it's very impressive and it already replaced Rectangle here !

10729287 2y ago
Update : Controling the max size can be achieved with a custom setting... and it's beautifully done. Give it a try, that app is absolutely perfect already. The mouse setting is really fast and very efficient. Congratulation to the team.

tiffanyh 2y ago

I always love indie apps and never want to discourage creators. Some unsolicited advice though … given macOS in a few month time will have Window Tiling natively built in - you might want to articulate how Loop is different/better. https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/12/macos-sequoia-window-tiling/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/12/macos-sequoia-window-ti...

trevyn 2y ago
[flagged]
MrKai77 2y ago
Actually, macOS Sequoia only has halves, maximize and quarters as resize options, and has very limited keyboard shortcuts. Some people will be happy with it, and some will need more. Loop is very flexible in terms of making custom window sizes, keybinds, cycles etc., and is perfect for those who need more!
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  But expect Apple to add more features. I would be careful on staking a business plan on the current lack of windowing features in MacOS or you could find the rug pulled out from under you. Good luck!
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- moritzwarhier 2y ago
  As long as I can assign useful keyboard shortcuts, that's enough for me and hits the sweet spot (hello Windows 7!). I don't use the more advanced Rectangle features either.
- pegasus 2y ago
  Good to know. As someone with only mild interest in window managers, my first thought was that this will probably be obsoleted by the coming feature GP refers to. So GP is right, your explanation on the product page would be useful for at least some of us.

xs83 2y ago

I have been a long term Rectangle user on Mac and a WinSplitRevolution for decades on Windows, my biggest preference as a developer is for it to be keyboard centric. I love the use of a numpad as a positional reference for the screen. Hotkey + NumPad 6 = right side of screen full Hotkey + NumPad 5 = full screen Hotkey + Numpad 1 = Bottom left Quarter Repeated presses of these cycle between Half, 3rd and Quarter This reminds me of the Crysis UI which I still love as a weapon / armor switcher :)

SoftBred 2y ago
Loop can actually be strictly keyboard centric if you want too. It's all fully customisable. I too only use the keyboard
- xs83 2y ago
  Nice!

fizlebit 2y ago

Any chance of a window manager that lets you alt tab between windows instead of between applications. So Alt-tab-tab-tab takes you 3 windows ago, not 3 applications ago, or worse 1 application ago and 2 unrelated windows of that application? Man I really mis application menus being at the top of windows and being able to layer different windows from different applications in any order that I wish. VNC screen connections just make it into an even worse jumble.

aloer 2y ago
macOS has built in shortcuts to switch through windows of the currently focused application. I have it reconfigured to alt+tab This is not exactly what you are looking for but I personally like it more this way. So for example, I can switch between editor and browser via cmd tab but then I can cycle through browser windows via alt tab. These are two separate actions and it prevents me from having to cycle too much (compared to a solution that cycles through all windows of all applications) Also helps to build temporal and spatial muscle memory. The first browser window is the main one, the next one was the one before that and so on
janci 2y ago
Wait, what? Are all windows of an application positioned in the same layer on macOS?
- notpushkin 2y ago
  Yeah, when you press ⌘ Tab, you are switching between applications (and ⌘ ` switches between windows of the applications). Super weird IMO.
  - yodon 2y ago
    The behavior dates back to the original Mac, which could only context switch between applications via a hack that simulated multitasking (the days of 128K memory, etc.)
    - 2y ago

jasonrm 2y ago

Open-source, except for the "new framework used to make Loop's settings window", so don't expect to build from source. https://github.com/MrKai77/Loop/issues/406 https://github.com/MrKai77/Loop/issues/406

MrKai77 2y ago
As stated in the comment on GitHub, Luminare will only be accessible by sponsors. If you have financial restrictions or are not able to sponsor me, I am open to giving the you the source code. However, this is all in order to make Loop more profitable, as I have put all my free time into making it. I hope you understand :)
- jimrandomh 2y ago
  If you need to go proprietary to make enough money that's fine, but this is not open source and in particular it is not compatible with the GPLv3 license stated in the README. You have likely already given some users the right to redistribute Luminaire under GPLv3.
- sshine 2y ago
  I don't think anyone disputes rewarding individuals for software they provide to their patrons. I hope you prosper! But "open source to those who pay" is quite a stretch of the definition. If you check Open Source Initiative's list of approved licenses, you won't find anything that fits this definition: https://opensource.org/licenses https://opensource.org/licenses The closest I know to what you're describing is Business Source License (BSL): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Source_License https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Source_License > The Business Source License (SPDX id BUSL) is a software license which publishes source code but limits the right to use the software to certain classes of users. The BUSL is not an open-source license, but it is source-available license that also mandates an eventual transition to an open-source license. This characteristic has been described as a compromise between traditional proprietary licenses and open source.
  - Spivak 2y ago

adamomada 2y ago

A similar mouse/trackpad-based window manager: https://deniz.co/penc/ https://deniz.co/penc/

stared 2y ago

I am a big fan of Divvy (https://mizage.com/divvy/)—while https://mizage.com/divvy/)—while both dated and paid, it has a wonderful feature of a visual tile map you can use. In all other cases I know, there are a bunch of shortcuts to make a window upper-top or something. But in many cases, it is not enough, as I need fine-grain control.

jasonrm 2y ago
Divvy thankfully still works without issue and I love it, but when Apple drops Intel support via Rosetta it's going to be a sad day. https://thelasso.app https://thelasso.app gets close, and adds more features (or visual clutter, imo), but still doesn't feel as quick and efficient to use when setting positions for multiple windows quickly. Divvy can be configured to stay open, and because it's always centered on each monitor, for some reason I can find it better than Lasso that opens where the mouse currently is.

krembo 2y ago

I really like Divvy for window management which takes a different approach from most of the others https://apps.apple.com/fi/app/divvy-window-manager/id413857545?mt=12 https://apps.apple.com/fi/app/divvy-window-manager/id4138575...

jerieljan 2y ago

Swish is the one that solved this problem for me. Feels similar to Loop and Penc, but is primarily trackpad-driven, but also customizable with modifier keys for additional functions. I wish it had more updates, but at least its core features have worked reliably. You don't even press the keyboard to start, but you position the mouse over the window's titlebar and just use two-finger swipes. The website's homepage does a better job demonstrating it under a minute. https://highlyopinionated.co/swish/ https://highlyopinionated.co/swish/

gigatexal 2y ago

i love that there's work on this happening -- there are a lot of projects in this space: magnet, rectangle, yabai, this one, others I've forgotten to name (sorry!) i just can't wait until i can get tiling like i3 has on linux stacking, tabbed, infinite auto tiling, all keyboard driven with some mouse support all things i miss on macos :(

MrKai77 2y ago
Not related to Loop, but I'd suggest that you take a look at https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace if you haven't already!
- zaphodias 2y ago
  I've been loving Aerospace. Is as close as i3wm you can get, on Mac OS.
- gigatexal 2y ago
  Will do!

rcarmo 2y ago

FYI, I've been keeping a list here: https://taoofmac.com/space/apps/window_managers https://taoofmac.com/space/apps/window_managers

shepherdjerred 2y ago
Do you have a favorite?
- rcarmo 2y ago
  Moom or Amethyst, depending on whether I need tiling or not.
suralind 2y ago
Surprised you don't have yabai on the list.
- rcarmo 2y ago
  I don’t want to incentivize people to disable System Integrity Protection.
  - suralind 2y ago
    It doesn't require it for this functionality. SIP is needed for some additional features afaik.
akie 2y ago
You can add https://www.irradiatedsoftware.com/sizeup/ https://www.irradiatedsoftware.com/sizeup/ - commercial though

Scotrix 2y ago

Will test it and see if it’s a replacement for Magnet. I have another very annoying issue with 3 screens which recover from energy saving after sleep slightly delayed and screw up my window positioning once in a while where all open windows end up on the main screen (I’m using spaces + a single desktop for all screens). Does anyone know about a solution / tool here which rearranges windows on a previous saved state prior to sleep and waits until all screens are back detected before arranging them again?

lurkersince2013 2y ago
Oh yes, I forgot how much of a pain that is. It’s so frustrating. I’ve been using this for the last couple of years and forgot it was even an issue: https://cordlessdog.com/stay/ https://cordlessdog.com/stay/

swah 2y ago

Very good implementation, congrats! I mostly use a few commands from Raycast these days (next display is super cool) but will try this one for dragging.

outime 2y ago

The title should be edited, this is only partially open-source.

MrKai77 2y ago
Now fully open-source :)

ferrantim 2y ago

Gonna have to try this. Been using bettersnaptool for years.

csmeyer 2y ago

How does this compare to magnet? Magnet has worked well for me for years, although recently I was trying to clean up my menu bar and realized there was no way to remove the menu bar icon. I’ll ask for some advice on that here actually since there are some Mac experts, is there some terminal incantation to remove a menu bar item?

rco8786 2y ago

Is this strictly mouse controlled? I use Divvy with a set of keyboard shortcuts to toss my windows around, and would be open to exploring a newer option...but not if it requires me to use the mouse.

MrKai77 2y ago
Loop is fully usable via the keyboard!