3 ms·

The funny thing about the EU is that while they do all this theatre of parliamentary elections, the bulk of such decisions are always taken by an unelected orga

The funny thing about the EU is that while they do all this theatre of parliamentary elections, the bulk of such decisions are always taken by an unelected organ, the EU commission. It is not that I think they have mischievous intentions, on the contrary, but any unchecked managerial bureaucracy always go to the path of endless regulation and control.

baryphonic 2y ago
I find this bizarre as well. The EU Parliament has no initiative, possessing only the power to approve or veto legislation proposed by the Commission. And then when they occasionally exercise their veto power, the Commission can just resubmit substantially the same legislation as before, as is happening here. This also means the Parliament has no independent power to repeal previous law that it might have regretted passing. It must again wait for the Commission to propose repeal. I can count how many times an unelected administrative bureaucracy has proposed removing its own power on zero hands. The whole thing strikes me as a sham democracy.
- Bluestein 2y ago
  It is (a sham).- Then again, I am, personally, split: The standards, and process, to become a part of this technocratic body that is the EU are very high, and they will (ostensibly) select amongst the best candidates ... ... might this "technocracy" be an option in today's age of political mediocrity and populism?
  - andrepd 2y ago
    >The standards, and process, to become a part of this technocratic body that is the EU are very high [citation needed] :) As far as I see it's just opaque dealings between the individual member-states' governments.
ivan_gammel 2y ago
Pan-European party Volt is going to change that. They are slowly gaining popularity and on recent elections to EUP performed better in Germany than some mainstream parties (3% nation-wide, but much better in politically affluent Berlin). I‘m sure they will become mainstream in the next 2-3 election cycles.
- andrepd 2y ago
  Highly doubt it. As mentioned, the backroom and opaque dealings among the individual member-states' governments are the real power in the EU. Even if Volt would win a good-sized bench in the EP (which they aren't), it doesn't change the balance of power.
snowpid 2y ago
The EU commission is not unchecked. Unelected governments (and instead appointed by the parlament) are the norm in most European states. Why on HN people feel entitled to make such comments? Is it a Krueger effect on politics?
- AlanYx 2y ago
  Depends how you define unchecked. The European Parliament's only real recourse against the Commission is censure, and it's never been successfully done (although it came close in 1999 (Santer) and in 2004 (Barroso)). On the other hand, the EP has successfully picked off a handful of individual Commission initiatives, probably most relevant to HN being the 2005 Software Patents Directive. The problem with one-offs though is that it doesn't stop the overall direction the Commission wants to go; it comes back again and again, as it has done here with chat control coming back rebranded as upload moderation. There's no way to get them to change direction wholesale other than censure, which as noted above has never been successfully done.
  - snowpid 2y ago
    checked means clearly bounded by laws and institutions. There are judges who disagree the EC. The council and the parliament have to say yes to new law. This is clearly checked.
    - andrepd 2y ago
      The courts are arguably the least worse institutions of the EU, but they are slow and not really applicable in many matters. The """parliament""" is a joke. Do you know of any other democratic parliament in the entire world which doesn't have the power to propose laws? I don't. As people have pointed out, the commission can just keep pushing and pushing and pushing the legislation they want, as they are doing with Chat Control. It only needs to win once, whereas the other side needs to win every time.
      - snowpid 2y ago
andrepd 2y ago
"The European Union does not have a democratic deficit same as the moon doesn't have an oxygen deficit" The EU is a profoundly dysfunctional institution, and one of the main reasons why is the lack of democracy. I say this as a pro-Europe person.

baryphonic 2y ago

I find this bizarre as well. The EU Parliament has no initiative, possessing only the power to approve or veto legislation proposed by the Commission. And then when they occasionally exercise their veto power, the Commission can just resubmit substantially the same legislation as before, as is happening here. This also means the Parliament has no independent power to repeal previous law that it might have regretted passing. It must again wait for the Commission to propose repeal. I can count how many times an unelected administrative bureaucracy has proposed removing its own power on zero hands. The whole thing strikes me as a sham democracy.

Bluestein 2y ago
It is (a sham).- Then again, I am, personally, split: The standards, and process, to become a part of this technocratic body that is the EU are very high, and they will (ostensibly) select amongst the best candidates ... ... might this "technocracy" be an option in today's age of political mediocrity and populism?
- andrepd 2y ago
  >The standards, and process, to become a part of this technocratic body that is the EU are very high [citation needed] :) As far as I see it's just opaque dealings between the individual member-states' governments.

ivan_gammel 2y ago

Pan-European party Volt is going to change that. They are slowly gaining popularity and on recent elections to EUP performed better in Germany than some mainstream parties (3% nation-wide, but much better in politically affluent Berlin). I‘m sure they will become mainstream in the next 2-3 election cycles.

andrepd 2y ago
Highly doubt it. As mentioned, the backroom and opaque dealings among the individual member-states' governments are the real power in the EU. Even if Volt would win a good-sized bench in the EP (which they aren't), it doesn't change the balance of power.

snowpid 2y ago

The EU commission is not unchecked. Unelected governments (and instead appointed by the parlament) are the norm in most European states. Why on HN people feel entitled to make such comments? Is it a Krueger effect on politics?

AlanYx 2y ago
Depends how you define unchecked. The European Parliament's only real recourse against the Commission is censure, and it's never been successfully done (although it came close in 1999 (Santer) and in 2004 (Barroso)). On the other hand, the EP has successfully picked off a handful of individual Commission initiatives, probably most relevant to HN being the 2005 Software Patents Directive. The problem with one-offs though is that it doesn't stop the overall direction the Commission wants to go; it comes back again and again, as it has done here with chat control coming back rebranded as upload moderation. There's no way to get them to change direction wholesale other than censure, which as noted above has never been successfully done.
- snowpid 2y ago
  checked means clearly bounded by laws and institutions. There are judges who disagree the EC. The council and the parliament have to say yes to new law. This is clearly checked.
  - andrepd 2y ago
    The courts are arguably the least worse institutions of the EU, but they are slow and not really applicable in many matters. The """parliament""" is a joke. Do you know of any other democratic parliament in the entire world which doesn't have the power to propose laws? I don't. As people have pointed out, the commission can just keep pushing and pushing and pushing the legislation they want, as they are doing with Chat Control. It only needs to win once, whereas the other side needs to win every time.
    - snowpid 2y ago

andrepd 2y ago

"The European Union does not have a democratic deficit same as the moon doesn't have an oxygen deficit" The EU is a profoundly dysfunctional institution, and one of the main reasons why is the lack of democracy. I say this as a pro-Europe person.