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Is there anything incorrect in what he’s said though? It’s a few hundred character Tweet that has been reproduced fully. You don’t even need to know the author

Is there anything incorrect in what he’s said though? It’s a few hundred character Tweet that has been reproduced fully. You don’t even need to know the author to assess the contents of the tweet.

eatonphil 2y ago
He took a pretty uncharitable view. Maybe BRICS is doomed of course. And I'm not particularly hopeful. But I'd rather hear perspectives either from both sides or from folks who I can trust as more independent.
- throw0101a 2y ago
  > He took a pretty uncharitable view. Frum took an accurate view IMHO. Unless you think that property rights (and window incidents) in Russia are not a problem, or that China already has good transparency in their economy… Do you think those things?
  - eatonphil 2y ago
    No I agree, it's just the attitude that seems concerning. Like it encourages not taking these countries seriously, and not looking hard enough at ourselves to see how we can do better too.
    - addicted 2y ago
      It encourages not taking BRICS seriously. Which is absolutely correct. BRICS as an organization is a joke. The individual countries should be taken seriously. Which western countries finally have started doing over the last couple of years. The watershed moment was Russia’s attack on Ukraine. It finally dispensed with the neocon idea that they could spread free market democracies in Russia and China by simply trading with them.
    - throw0101a 2y ago
      > Like it encourages not taking these countries seriously, and not looking hard enough at ourselves to see how we can do better too. One can also take the countries seriously but the 'BRICS project' not-seriously.
- addicted 2y ago
  Whether it’s uncharitable or not it makes specific claims that can be assessed by anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge about these countries. Again, which claim is incorrect? > Brazil's history of monetary stability Does Brazil have a history of monetary stability? > Russia's respect for property rights Does Russia have respect for property rights? > India's domestic tranquility Is India’s domestic affairs tranquil? > China's financial transparency Are Chinese finances transparent? > South Africa's investment opportunities Does South Africa have great investment opportunities? One could argue much of this really matters when it comes to economic growth for individual countries. But all these properties certainly matter when it comes to forming an economic alliance across nations. Which is why BRICS has been almost completely worthless and to the extent these countries have had any effect together it’s through bilateral agreements.
  - boffinAudio 2y ago
    >Does Brazil have a history of monetary stability? It does, now that its in BRICS. >Does Russia have respect for property rights? It does, now that its in BRICS. (ahem sanctions are a crime against humanity, yo.) >Are India’s domestic affairs tranquil? They certainly will get better, now that they're in BRICS and their people stand to gain a lot from the economic growth that involves, outside of the Western control that has put India in the position its in, in the first place. >Are Chinese finances transparent? Well, ask the other BRICS members: they are the ones who can say, definitely, yes. To Americans? No, of course not. >Does South Africa have great investment opportunities? They certainly do, now that they're in BRICS. >Which is why BRICS has been almost completely worthless .. .. to the Western Empire.
    - soco 2y ago
      I can't even tell whether this comment is sarcasm or not. I mean, a rosy argument based on future guessing, wishful thinking and ignorance of the past (past of the BRICS, that is) must be sarcasm, right? I mean, yes it could end up all of that, like it could become just anything else on the 0-100 probability range. As long there's zero reason to claim such certainty today, I call b$ on it.

eatonphil 2y ago

He took a pretty uncharitable view. Maybe BRICS is doomed of course. And I'm not particularly hopeful. But I'd rather hear perspectives either from both sides or from folks who I can trust as more independent.

throw0101a 2y ago
> He took a pretty uncharitable view. Frum took an accurate view IMHO. Unless you think that property rights (and window incidents) in Russia are not a problem, or that China already has good transparency in their economy… Do you think those things?
- eatonphil 2y ago
  No I agree, it's just the attitude that seems concerning. Like it encourages not taking these countries seriously, and not looking hard enough at ourselves to see how we can do better too.
  - addicted 2y ago
    It encourages not taking BRICS seriously. Which is absolutely correct. BRICS as an organization is a joke. The individual countries should be taken seriously. Which western countries finally have started doing over the last couple of years. The watershed moment was Russia’s attack on Ukraine. It finally dispensed with the neocon idea that they could spread free market democracies in Russia and China by simply trading with them.
  - throw0101a 2y ago
    > Like it encourages not taking these countries seriously, and not looking hard enough at ourselves to see how we can do better too. One can also take the countries seriously but the 'BRICS project' not-seriously.
addicted 2y ago
Whether it’s uncharitable or not it makes specific claims that can be assessed by anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge about these countries. Again, which claim is incorrect? > Brazil's history of monetary stability Does Brazil have a history of monetary stability? > Russia's respect for property rights Does Russia have respect for property rights? > India's domestic tranquility Is India’s domestic affairs tranquil? > China's financial transparency Are Chinese finances transparent? > South Africa's investment opportunities Does South Africa have great investment opportunities? One could argue much of this really matters when it comes to economic growth for individual countries. But all these properties certainly matter when it comes to forming an economic alliance across nations. Which is why BRICS has been almost completely worthless and to the extent these countries have had any effect together it’s through bilateral agreements.
- boffinAudio 2y ago
  >Does Brazil have a history of monetary stability? It does, now that its in BRICS. >Does Russia have respect for property rights? It does, now that its in BRICS. (ahem sanctions are a crime against humanity, yo.) >Are India’s domestic affairs tranquil? They certainly will get better, now that they're in BRICS and their people stand to gain a lot from the economic growth that involves, outside of the Western control that has put India in the position its in, in the first place. >Are Chinese finances transparent? Well, ask the other BRICS members: they are the ones who can say, definitely, yes. To Americans? No, of course not. >Does South Africa have great investment opportunities? They certainly do, now that they're in BRICS. >Which is why BRICS has been almost completely worthless .. .. to the Western Empire.
  - soco 2y ago
    I can't even tell whether this comment is sarcasm or not. I mean, a rosy argument based on future guessing, wishful thinking and ignorance of the past (past of the BRICS, that is) must be sarcasm, right? I mean, yes it could end up all of that, like it could become just anything else on the 0-100 probability range. As long there's zero reason to claim such certainty today, I call b$ on it.