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checks USD exchange rates Yep it's still the only currency that matters. Checks Indian-Chinese relations Yep they still have effective visa bans against each

checks USD exchange rates Yep it's still the only currency that matters. Checks Indian-Chinese relations Yep they still have effective visa bans against each other. So what is this BRICS club exactly? A dictionary club?

krmboya 2y ago
> Yep it's still the only currency that matters. That's what the US govt thought when it sanctioned Russia. It only resulted in Russia falling back to their local currency without any significant problems, while making the rest of the world wary of reliance on the US dollar
- whatever1 2y ago
  So worried that USD became even stronger since the war started. Any idea why people don't put their foot where their mouth is?
- quonn 2y ago
  > without any significant problems Can't loose anything if you have nothing - or a giant landmass, natural resources and still only an economy the size of Italy.
- Etheryte 2y ago
  I wouldn't really say that either one of those is true. Russia has spent considerable time and effort to work around the currency problem, crypto and stablecoins are currently one very prominent set of tools they use for that. Similarly, I don't really see anyone phasing out the US dollar as a reserve currency.
  - FpUser 2y ago
    >"I don't really see anyone phasing out the US dollar as a reserve currency." The pig has grown way too big and is drowning in debt. Way too much overhead to keep feeding it. On top of that the US dollar is being used as a club which is an issue for countries that do not want to toe the line. Given a time the world will find a replacement.
    - Etheryte 2y ago
      This is a non-falsifiable nothing-burger. You could've made the same claim ten, twenty and thirty years ago, yet here we are.
      - FpUser 2y ago
        The debt was smaller and other countries were weaker. Obviously the US and $ are not going to disappear (bar all out nuclear war) but at some point in the future it might have to accept that it is not a navel of the Universe
        Etheryte 2y ago
        The problem with claims like these is that there is no criteria to check against, e.g. has this happened or not, and there is no actual timeline, e.g. is it at the heat death of the universe or next year. Thoroughly vague propositions like this don't really add any value to the discussion.
        FpUser 2y ago
        Keep wearing that hat
  - thriftwy 2y ago
    Many countries now contemplate being eventually kicked out of US dollar reserve and surviving that.
- romwell 2y ago
  >Russia falling back to their local currency Ah yes, the yuan[1]. Though the way this is going, it might as well be the Russian local currency now. [1] https://www.newsweek.com/russia-china-yuan-ruble-1912458 https://www.newsweek.com/russia-china-yuan-ruble-1912458
- dralley 2y ago
  Despite being popular to claim otherwise, it's causing significant problems for Russia, just in somewhat specific ways.
- chipdart 2y ago
  > That's what the US govt thought when it sanctioned Russia. It only resulted in Russia falling back to their local currency without any significant problems, while making the rest of the world wary of reliance on the US dollar I think you're trying to spin reality into a far rosier picture. Russia is now bounded to do international trade with any currency other than the ruble, and it is famously piling on a huge trade deficit with India while stockpiling rupees without any way of exchanging them for anything. You're talking about a scenario that not even Russia is able to use Russia's currency in direct trades with other BRICS members. What does this tell you about "significant problems"? > while making the rest of the world wary of reliance on the US dollar You're commenting as if no one in the world was aware of the US dolar hegemony, and even if it was anything new. That's not what's happening in reality. Even the eurozone has been trying to leverage the euro as an alternative to the US dolar in markets like oil, and hasn't been that successful. If a trading block and economic powerhouse like the eurozone isn't able to shake that off, what tells you that Russia, whose economy barely matches Italy's, is an exception?
  - boffinAudio 2y ago
    >stockpiling rupees without any way of exchanging them for anything But .. that's nothing less than a huge opportunity for India to start building things the Russians need and want. The same thing occurred with the Euro, which was doing fine until the energy sources feeding its growth were attacked, recently ..
    - ericmay 2y ago
      Why would it be a huge opportunity for India and not China? And for either they run a risk of running afoul of US and EU sanctions depending on what goods and services are provided.
      - ivan_gammel 2y ago
        China is already using this opportunity. Yuan is much more popular in Russia than rupee. As for sanctions, governments can shield the businesses from them - we have seen that before. Unless EU or USA want to sanction the entire China, the effects will be limited and won’t act as deterrent. This war has already been lost by the West.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > resulted in Russia falling back to their local currency It took until May of this year—over 2 years from first sanctions—for the yuan to hit top currency on the Moscow Exchange [1]. Of course sanctions hurt both America and Russia. But they hurt Russia more. Within a year, it will be a total suzerainty of China’s, a dynamic that’s beginning to become apparent in the concessions the latter is already demanding on resource pricing [2]. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/13/investing/us-russia-sanctions-dollar-euro-trading/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/13/investing/us-russia-sanctions... [2] https://www.ft.com/content/f7a34e3e-bce9-4db9-ac49-a092f382c526 https://www.ft.com/content/f7a34e3e-bce9-4db9-ac49-a092f382c...
riffraff 2y ago
It's crazy that a journalistic expression became a real organization thing, and now journalists treat it as if it meant something. Joining BRICS is akin to joining the "third world": joining it means nothing and even the original meaning it was supposed to represent has long been lost and forgotten.
- vidarh 2y ago
  Unlike "the third world", BRICS has a formal organisation, a headquarter, regular summits, a development bank (unimaginateively named "New Development Bank"), a liquidity support framework, and others. It's not a very close association, but it's also far more than just a label.
  - riffraff 2y ago
    true, thanks for the correction.
dagaci 2y ago
BRICS is something which people seem to have strong feelings about. For india and china who are rivals, BRICS may offer mechanics which enable them to manage their rivalies, especially given what may be seen as the declining influence of the UN (have people noticed that the massive moon landing India is not even a security council member!).
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > For india and china who are rivals, BRICS may offer mechanics which enable them to manage their rivalies BRICS has been totally absent in the Sino-Indian conflict [1]. Given China and India are its anchor economic heavyweights, and Russia an emerging Chinese suzerainty, it’s in nobody’s interest to bring that issue to the forum. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_border_dispute https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_border_dispute
- boffinAudio 2y ago
  People outside the BRICS sphere of influence don't want to see that rivalry be resolved through economic means - they'd rather profit (through their own military industrial complex' investments) from the turmoil that comes from invalidating BRICS as a concept within their own sphere. However, there are billions of people within the BRICS context. Billions and billions. I think this is why Western-aligned folks are in such fear of it as a concept for world diplomacy.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - qntmfred 2y ago
    > rivalry be resolved through economic means I asked chatgpt to tell me about the history of this concept. It confirmed that it is a BRICS invention.
    - kelipso 2y ago
      Sure, no two countries with McDs have ever gone to war is a BRICS concept.
Havoc 2y ago
You forget that the EU also started pretty loose and took a while to get going. This is rapidly turning into a collection of everyone that isn’t strongly west aligned. While it seems directionless for now they do have that in common. Don’t think it’s safe to dismiss it given direction of travel
- Ekaros 2y ago
  Also it might not be anything like EU or NATO. But instead of system to setup financial system outside the west. And here by financial system I mean how trade and transactions are done, not necessarily anything political about free trade and so on...
  - aaomidi 2y ago
    Changing the currency for the transactions would absolutely destroy the US dollar.
alephnerd 2y ago
> So what is this BRICS club exactly It's called "blunting". The best way to undermine alliances is to be a part of them and undermine consensus. China did this to APEC in the 1990s and the WTO in the 2000s, and India is doing the same in BRICS and SCO. Because this is a zero-sum competition, this means if one is a member of an alliance, the other needs to join as well to blunt their relative advantage.
TiredOfLife 2y ago
BRICS is just a rebrand of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_powers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_powers

krmboya 2y ago

> Yep it's still the only currency that matters. That's what the US govt thought when it sanctioned Russia. It only resulted in Russia falling back to their local currency without any significant problems, while making the rest of the world wary of reliance on the US dollar

whatever1 2y ago
So worried that USD became even stronger since the war started. Any idea why people don't put their foot where their mouth is?
quonn 2y ago
> without any significant problems Can't loose anything if you have nothing - or a giant landmass, natural resources and still only an economy the size of Italy.
Etheryte 2y ago
I wouldn't really say that either one of those is true. Russia has spent considerable time and effort to work around the currency problem, crypto and stablecoins are currently one very prominent set of tools they use for that. Similarly, I don't really see anyone phasing out the US dollar as a reserve currency.
- FpUser 2y ago
  >"I don't really see anyone phasing out the US dollar as a reserve currency." The pig has grown way too big and is drowning in debt. Way too much overhead to keep feeding it. On top of that the US dollar is being used as a club which is an issue for countries that do not want to toe the line. Given a time the world will find a replacement.
  - Etheryte 2y ago
    This is a non-falsifiable nothing-burger. You could've made the same claim ten, twenty and thirty years ago, yet here we are.
    - FpUser 2y ago
      The debt was smaller and other countries were weaker. Obviously the US and $ are not going to disappear (bar all out nuclear war) but at some point in the future it might have to accept that it is not a navel of the Universe
      - Etheryte 2y ago
        The problem with claims like these is that there is no criteria to check against, e.g. has this happened or not, and there is no actual timeline, e.g. is it at the heat death of the universe or next year. Thoroughly vague propositions like this don't really add any value to the discussion.
        FpUser 2y ago
        Keep wearing that hat
- thriftwy 2y ago
  Many countries now contemplate being eventually kicked out of US dollar reserve and surviving that.
romwell 2y ago
>Russia falling back to their local currency Ah yes, the yuan[1]. Though the way this is going, it might as well be the Russian local currency now. [1] https://www.newsweek.com/russia-china-yuan-ruble-1912458 https://www.newsweek.com/russia-china-yuan-ruble-1912458
dralley 2y ago
Despite being popular to claim otherwise, it's causing significant problems for Russia, just in somewhat specific ways.
chipdart 2y ago
> That's what the US govt thought when it sanctioned Russia. It only resulted in Russia falling back to their local currency without any significant problems, while making the rest of the world wary of reliance on the US dollar I think you're trying to spin reality into a far rosier picture. Russia is now bounded to do international trade with any currency other than the ruble, and it is famously piling on a huge trade deficit with India while stockpiling rupees without any way of exchanging them for anything. You're talking about a scenario that not even Russia is able to use Russia's currency in direct trades with other BRICS members. What does this tell you about "significant problems"? > while making the rest of the world wary of reliance on the US dollar You're commenting as if no one in the world was aware of the US dolar hegemony, and even if it was anything new. That's not what's happening in reality. Even the eurozone has been trying to leverage the euro as an alternative to the US dolar in markets like oil, and hasn't been that successful. If a trading block and economic powerhouse like the eurozone isn't able to shake that off, what tells you that Russia, whose economy barely matches Italy's, is an exception?
- boffinAudio 2y ago
  >stockpiling rupees without any way of exchanging them for anything But .. that's nothing less than a huge opportunity for India to start building things the Russians need and want. The same thing occurred with the Euro, which was doing fine until the energy sources feeding its growth were attacked, recently ..
  - ericmay 2y ago
    Why would it be a huge opportunity for India and not China? And for either they run a risk of running afoul of US and EU sanctions depending on what goods and services are provided.
    - ivan_gammel 2y ago
      China is already using this opportunity. Yuan is much more popular in Russia than rupee. As for sanctions, governments can shield the businesses from them - we have seen that before. Unless EU or USA want to sanction the entire China, the effects will be limited and won’t act as deterrent. This war has already been lost by the West.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> resulted in Russia falling back to their local currency It took until May of this year—over 2 years from first sanctions—for the yuan to hit top currency on the Moscow Exchange [1]. Of course sanctions hurt both America and Russia. But they hurt Russia more. Within a year, it will be a total suzerainty of China’s, a dynamic that’s beginning to become apparent in the concessions the latter is already demanding on resource pricing [2]. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/13/investing/us-russia-sanctions-dollar-euro-trading/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/13/investing/us-russia-sanctions... [2] https://www.ft.com/content/f7a34e3e-bce9-4db9-ac49-a092f382c526 https://www.ft.com/content/f7a34e3e-bce9-4db9-ac49-a092f382c...

riffraff 2y ago

It's crazy that a journalistic expression became a real organization thing, and now journalists treat it as if it meant something. Joining BRICS is akin to joining the "third world": joining it means nothing and even the original meaning it was supposed to represent has long been lost and forgotten.

vidarh 2y ago
Unlike "the third world", BRICS has a formal organisation, a headquarter, regular summits, a development bank (unimaginateively named "New Development Bank"), a liquidity support framework, and others. It's not a very close association, but it's also far more than just a label.
- riffraff 2y ago
  true, thanks for the correction.

dagaci 2y ago

BRICS is something which people seem to have strong feelings about. For india and china who are rivals, BRICS may offer mechanics which enable them to manage their rivalies, especially given what may be seen as the declining influence of the UN (have people noticed that the massive moon landing India is not even a security council member!).

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> For india and china who are rivals, BRICS may offer mechanics which enable them to manage their rivalies BRICS has been totally absent in the Sino-Indian conflict [1]. Given China and India are its anchor economic heavyweights, and Russia an emerging Chinese suzerainty, it’s in nobody’s interest to bring that issue to the forum. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_border_dispute https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_border_dispute
boffinAudio 2y ago
People outside the BRICS sphere of influence don't want to see that rivalry be resolved through economic means - they'd rather profit (through their own military industrial complex' investments) from the turmoil that comes from invalidating BRICS as a concept within their own sphere. However, there are billions of people within the BRICS context. Billions and billions. I think this is why Western-aligned folks are in such fear of it as a concept for world diplomacy.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- qntmfred 2y ago
  > rivalry be resolved through economic means I asked chatgpt to tell me about the history of this concept. It confirmed that it is a BRICS invention.
  - kelipso 2y ago
    Sure, no two countries with McDs have ever gone to war is a BRICS concept.

Havoc 2y ago

You forget that the EU also started pretty loose and took a while to get going. This is rapidly turning into a collection of everyone that isn’t strongly west aligned. While it seems directionless for now they do have that in common. Don’t think it’s safe to dismiss it given direction of travel

Ekaros 2y ago
Also it might not be anything like EU or NATO. But instead of system to setup financial system outside the west. And here by financial system I mean how trade and transactions are done, not necessarily anything political about free trade and so on...
- aaomidi 2y ago
  Changing the currency for the transactions would absolutely destroy the US dollar.

alephnerd 2y ago

> So what is this BRICS club exactly It's called "blunting". The best way to undermine alliances is to be a part of them and undermine consensus. China did this to APEC in the 1990s and the WTO in the 2000s, and India is doing the same in BRICS and SCO. Because this is a zero-sum competition, this means if one is a member of an alliance, the other needs to join as well to blunt their relative advantage.

TiredOfLife 2y ago

BRICS is just a rebrand of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_powers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_powers