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In theory. The non-ideal state of Java and (especially) C++ generics suggested that it might be unwise to rush into a particular set of implementation choices.

by foldr 2y ago

unscaled 2y ago
The non-ideal state of generics in Java mostly stems from having to maintain compatibility with early versions of Java that did not have generics. If James Gosling had "rushed" and copied generics Verbatim from CLU or Ada, Java would have had a very decent generic implementation. Not necessarily a perfect one, but it wouldn't suffer from the serious issues that C++ and Java suffer from (and more or less ONLY C++ and Java suffer from).
neonsunset 2y ago
In practice. But I think this response showcases a particular trend within Go the language and its community: arrogance and insufficient acknowledgement of the outside world. There's myriad languages beyond Java and C++ both of which have rather non-standard "generics" implementation (object erasure and code templating). But, adhering to this trend, it seems Go design decided not to absorb much from the prior art. I know, surely designers of a popular language should know better? That's what conventional wisdom would suggest, and yet here we are. But hey, I should cheer on - the bolted on approach that will plague Go for the years to come might just help companies realize sooner that Go is frequently a poor choice.
- foldr 2y ago
  Meh, I couldn't give a stuff about the personality traits of the Go designers. I like the language, which I think is both better and worse for not having followed every modern trend in PL design. I don't know the designers personally. If they are arrogant, so be it.
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  Every programming language is frequently a poor choice for somethings and frequently a good choice for others. As someone who’s been writing software for 30 years and in well over a dozen different programming languages, I can tell you that there’s no such thing as a language that doesn’t have any problems. And that’s without even touching on programmers personal preferences.

In theory. The non-ideal state of Java and (especially) C++ generics suggested that it might be unwise to rush into a particular set of implementation choices.

by foldr 2y ago

In theory. The non-ideal state of Java and (especially) C++ generics suggested that it might be unwise to rush into a particular set of implementation choices.

unscaled 2y ago

The non-ideal state of generics in Java mostly stems from having to maintain compatibility with early versions of Java that did not have generics. If James Gosling had "rushed" and copied generics Verbatim from CLU or Ada, Java would have had a very decent generic implementation. Not necessarily a perfect one, but it wouldn't suffer from the serious issues that C++ and Java suffer from (and more or less ONLY C++ and Java suffer from).

neonsunset 2y ago

In practice. But I think this response showcases a particular trend within Go the language and its community: arrogance and insufficient acknowledgement of the outside world. There's myriad languages beyond Java and C++ both of which have rather non-standard "generics" implementation (object erasure and code templating). But, adhering to this trend, it seems Go design decided not to absorb much from the prior art. I know, surely designers of a popular language should know better? That's what conventional wisdom would suggest, and yet here we are. But hey, I should cheer on - the bolted on approach that will plague Go for the years to come might just help companies realize sooner that Go is frequently a poor choice.

foldr 2y ago
Meh, I couldn't give a stuff about the personality traits of the Go designers. I like the language, which I think is both better and worse for not having followed every modern trend in PL design. I don't know the designers personally. If they are arrogant, so be it.
hnlmorg 2y ago
Every programming language is frequently a poor choice for somethings and frequently a good choice for others. As someone who’s been writing software for 30 years and in well over a dozen different programming languages, I can tell you that there’s no such thing as a language that doesn’t have any problems. And that’s without even touching on programmers personal preferences.