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> This is why the roles of the major players in society (government, monopolies) need to be circumscribed ... We need some sort of human right for digital priva

> This is why the roles of the major players in society (government, monopolies) need to be circumscribed ... We need some sort of human right for digital privacy to make this sort of thing illegal The entities that need to be circumscribed need to enforce a law that circumscribes themselves? Those incentives do not seem to align to form a stable structure.

FredPret 2y ago
The only way is to have a broad-based idea among the people about exactly what is allowed for a government and a big business. There's a strong and widespread expectation among many that it's morally imperative for them to be able to elect their own government. So any moves by the government to limit this will be met by fierce resistance. If a similar idea existed about privacy, these sneaky moves wouldn't be feasible and would leave a bad taste in the mouths even of the perpetrators. Unfortunately, many among us are of the "But I've got nothing to hide" persuasion.
- Wytwwww 2y ago
  > widespread expectation among many that it's morally imperative for them to be able to elect their own government. So any moves by the government to limit this will be met by fierce resistance. That's not really true as far as it comes to the EU though? The EU parliament has always been a joke with limited power (both because of structural reasons and because most of it's members are clueless and extremely easy to influence) and besides that the EU population has no way to exert any direct influence on EU policies (they could do that through the council but they'd have prioritize the EU over domestic issues when voting in national elections which will never happen)
  - nine_k 2y ago
    In the same vein, EU does not have an idea of sanctity of free speech. Various forms of censorship exist in various EU members, all for apparently good causes.
    - consumer451 2y ago
      Neither does any country if you look closely enough, all for apparently good reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_Uni...
ang_cire 2y ago
That's why you need to always ensure authority rests with individuals, or the ability to secure against unjust authority. The second your only recourse against authority is to politely ask it not to do something bad to you (maybe, for instance, on a piece of paper with multiple choice questions), you have no real autonomy.

FredPret 2y ago

The only way is to have a broad-based idea among the people about exactly what is allowed for a government and a big business. There's a strong and widespread expectation among many that it's morally imperative for them to be able to elect their own government. So any moves by the government to limit this will be met by fierce resistance. If a similar idea existed about privacy, these sneaky moves wouldn't be feasible and would leave a bad taste in the mouths even of the perpetrators. Unfortunately, many among us are of the "But I've got nothing to hide" persuasion.

Wytwwww 2y ago
> widespread expectation among many that it's morally imperative for them to be able to elect their own government. So any moves by the government to limit this will be met by fierce resistance. That's not really true as far as it comes to the EU though? The EU parliament has always been a joke with limited power (both because of structural reasons and because most of it's members are clueless and extremely easy to influence) and besides that the EU population has no way to exert any direct influence on EU policies (they could do that through the council but they'd have prioritize the EU over domestic issues when voting in national elections which will never happen)
- nine_k 2y ago
  In the same vein, EU does not have an idea of sanctity of free speech. Various forms of censorship exist in various EU members, all for apparently good causes.
  - consumer451 2y ago
    Neither does any country if you look closely enough, all for apparently good reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_Uni...

ang_cire 2y ago

That's why you need to always ensure authority rests with individuals, or the ability to secure against unjust authority. The second your only recourse against authority is to politely ask it not to do something bad to you (maybe, for instance, on a piece of paper with multiple choice questions), you have no real autonomy.