9 ms·

Israel airport security demands access to tourists' private email accounts

49 points by mxfh 14y ago

tnash 14y ago
Before any kind of Israel bashing starts, I want to say that unless you have lived under constant threat to your life like nearly all Israelis have during some point of their life, you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family. Nonetheless, this does seem a little overboard. From having personally been grilled by Israeli airport security, I can say that they are very thorough. I doubt they really need this intrusion to determine if someone is a threat, as it is easier for them to just not grant access, but I suppose if someone really needed to get into the country they could be willing to divulge the information. Security, in any form, is annoying. Implement two-factor on your gmail account, and it will occasionally annoy you when you have to dig out your phone for the code, and that's just to protect your email from prying eyes! What if you had to legitimately protect your life and the lives of your family? What kind of inconvenience would you accept for that protection? (Edit) Why is this downvoted? What did I say that did not add to the conversation? Just because you disagree with me? That's rather childish. I think my point is rather poignant, that security is a necessary evil, and that for some it is more necessary than others.
- potatolicious 14y ago
  > "you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family" This justifies things... how? Not to mention that imminent danger has been the mother of a huge number of evils in our time, and since time immemorial.
  - tnash 14y ago
    So you're saying if someone were pointing a gun at your family, and you also had a gun pointed at them, you would refuse to use it out of a belief that you occupy some moral high ground?
    - click170 14y ago
      Rarher, I think they were saying that it would be prudent to be skeptical and cautious of anyone attempting to impose draconian laws or practices under the thinly veiled guise of "the british are coming" -- er sorry, "the baddies are coming".
    - potatolicious 14y ago
      I see that "non sequitor straw man analogy" is the special on the menu today. So, to be clear, I'm not saying anything about guns pointed my families. I'm talking about people's natural right to privacy and the overreach of government. These two things have nothing to do with each other and your attempt to connect them is both misleading and disingenuous.
      - tnash 14y ago
        Well, since you weren't clear, and still aren't, straw man it was. Your point is what? That privacy is sacrosanct? That we should live in a world where libertarianism rules all? What is your point? Stop me anytime. We're talking about the same thing here. Security abuses privacy, but is necessary. My point was, and still is, that for some it is more necessary than others. As we in the US and Western Europe don't live under constant threat to our lives, we accept less. However, Israelis do live under that threat, so they accept more.
        excuse-me 14y ago
        >As we in the .. Western Europe don't live under constant threat to our lives Some of us did living in Belfast - and we would like to thank all those nice Americans in Boston for making it all possible.
    - ajross 14y ago
      That seems like a digression. The tourists in question were presumably unarmed, both literally and figuratively. Yet they had the metaphorical gun pointed at them anyway. I'm guessing that an implied part of your point is that because they had arab names, they might have had metaphorical guns? Yeah. That's the part that drew the downvotes.
- toomuchtodo 14y ago
  Unless you're a grossly incompetent terrorist, searching through your email isn't going to help you determine how much of a threat you are. Israel can continue what they're doing, but without any US policy or financial support if they continue to do so towards US citizens/legal residents.
  - makomk 14y ago
    It's not going to help them determine how much of a threat someone is in terms of killing people. It's a very good way of determining how much of a threat someone's likely to be in terms of drawing attentions to the less savoury aspects of Israel's treatment of its Arab population. Edit: Good guess apparently. Look at the search keywords here: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-american-two-arab-american-womens-story-of-being-detained-and-interrogated-at-ben-gurion.html http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-...
    - marcf 14y ago
      It's weird that you were down voted for being factually correct.
  - potatolicious 14y ago
    I don't support this sort of invasion of privacy, but FWIW most terrorists are grossly incompetent. We're not dealing with shadowy cabals of Dr. Evils, terrorists we've been able to apprehend have inevitably turned out to be strictly amateur. What they lack in operational sophistication they make up in dedication and deadliness.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  I would demand that my government did go around and committed genocide on my neighbors. I would demand that they treat the palestinians as humans -- so they wouldn't want to kill me. But that is just me.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- _pius 14y ago
  Before any kind of Israel bashing starts, I want to say that unless you have lived under constant threat to your life like nearly all Israelis have during some point of their life, you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family. This is a really poor frame. People who disagree with this practice are not "Israel bashing," they're disagreeing with this policy. It's inappropriate to preemptively insinuate that those who disagree about a civil liberties issue are anti-Semitic.
  - tnash 14y ago
    Well, you know, it's just, I've been on the internet. People tend to take things to extremes. Tech people tend to be liberal, and most liberals in the US have an anti-Israeli view. I prefer not to divulge my political leanings (but just because I agree with someone else on one point does not mean I agree with them on any other) but I know a very great deal about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict and its implications. I want to educate, and I don't want to see mindless bashing of Israel like I see on pretty much every tech forum where the topic comes up.
    - smokeyj 14y ago
      "and most liberals in the US have an anti-Israeli view." So you're trying to preemptively stop generalizations based on your generalizations? Honestly, who's paying you for your Israeli propaganda?
      - tnash 14y ago
        Yep that pretty much sums it up. I guess I am, since I'm taking time from work to write this stuff.
        koide 14y ago
        This is a free piece of advice: try not to display your allegiance so clearly and so early (especially not before any bashing comment has even appeared!) A better approach to educate is to calmly correct each factually wrong statement, ideally with references. This way you'd avoid being classified early as a(n overreacting) shill, as that can only hamper your educational efforts.
- marcf 14y ago
  You will notice this isn't about security but about identifying pro-Palestinian activists: Quote: "The agent, suspecting Tamari was involved in pro-Palestinian activism, wanted to inspect her private email account for incriminating evidence. The 42-year-old American of Palestinian descent refused and was swiftly expelled from the country." http://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-palestinian-activist-says-she-was-expelled-for-refusing-to-log-in-to-her-email-at-the-airport/ http://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-palestinian-activist-says-s...
antr 14y ago
couldn't you just give a bogus email account, like an old hotmail account? It has my real name, and probably plenty of spam waiting to be opened, but that is about it. If airport security says anything against it I can simply say that I do not use email that often. Am I being too naive?
- pavel_lishin 14y ago
  Well, the penalty for disallowing access seems to be a refusal to allow you into the country. I imagine that giving access to a legitimate but old and useless e-mail address would be taken as a refusal, and you'd just get back on your plane and go home.
  - toomuchtodo 14y ago
    It appears that even giving them your real email account will get you refused from the country. As a US citizen, I'm disappointed in Israel, and would prefer even less of my tax dollars are used to support them after this.
    - nyellin 14y ago
      Israel has an excellent Supreme Court which has stopped behavior like this in the past. From wikipedia: The Court has ruled on numerous issues relating to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the rights of Arab citizens of Israel, and on discrimination between Jewish groups in Israel. It is unique in that its rulings can intervene in Israel Defense Forces military operations. Most Israelis are equally ashamed of this. This isn't what your tax dollars support. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_Israel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_Israel
      - pavel_lishin 14y ago
        So my tax dollars support only the good things they do?
    - nivertech 14y ago
koide 14y ago
They may have more and better reasons than most to be obnoxious in airport security, but this measure is nothing more than security theater (or worse,) yet again. Now that this measure is public, any terrorist worth his salt will prepare a plausible and innocent looking email account.
alt_ 14y ago
No real content in the article for non-subscribers. Reddit comment[0] has (a) full story[1]. [0] http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ulvaj/israel_airport_security_demands_access_to/c4wiiyv http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ulvaj/israel_airp... [1] http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-american-two-arab-american-womens-story-of-being-detained-and-interrogated-at-ben-gurion.html http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-...
- JumpCrisscross 14y ago
  We may need a HN Guideline about paywalls
  - mxfh 14y ago
    The paywall wasn't up when it was posted.
    - ajross 14y ago
      A bait and switch paywall? Is that a new thing?
    - js2 14y ago
      The Reddit link has no paywall apparently due to the query string: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-airport-security-demands-access-to-tourists-private-email-accounts-1.434509?localLinksEnabled=false http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-airport...
- davidf18 14y ago
  You could also just "google" for the headline to read the entire story....
davidf18 14y ago
I'm an American who has been to Israel countless times and unless you've been there you can't imagine the security situation. At the last moment I was saved from a terrorist attack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_BMW_attack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_BMW_attack when I went into a corner store to buy a candy bar hearing gunshots with girls running into the store before I could make my purchase. I have eaten at several locations that were later bombed by terrorists. I have been in Israel where terrorist bombs have blown up buses or the open market just a mile or so from where I was. A major difference between America and Israel: In America they search your bags on the way out of a store. In Israel they search your bags on the way in.
- SODaniel 14y ago
  Still no justification to require overly invasive security measures such as requiring access to personal communication etc. Also completely useless for anything than purely 'selecting' who you let in since I am going to assume a terrorist wouldn't exactly use terrorist185@hotmail.com and then hand the email over when asked.
  - mayanksinghal 14y ago
    Exactly and Israel is not the only country that faces terrorism. India does as well, and as an Indian - I would out-rightly reject any such measures.
  - planetguy 14y ago
    > Still no justification to require overly invasive security measures such as requiring access to personal communication etc Israel is full of overly invasive security measures. The alternative is probably just to bar access to the country altogether, or at least bar it to people of certain backgrounds.
  - davidf18 14y ago
    I wouldn't second guess Israeli security measures...unlike TSA, these are highly trained people who undoubtedly have military training since with few exceptions (Arab or Orthodox Jewish) not only men but women are drafted for military service. If you don't like the security measures then don't go there.
AJ007 14y ago
This just sounds like an attempt to keep individuals of certain backgrounds out of a country. Ask a lot of invasive information and then refuse them entry. Entry information such as this should be aggregated in to travel warnings given about a particular country to minimize wasting a citizen time & money. Stories on how foreign countries treat privacy are important. American companies, in some part, have turned places like China in to zero-privacy zones that would have left George Orwell's head spinning. The post-FB generation of start ups should take very hard lines on privacy and build tools that employ obfuscation & client side decryption. For example, when logging in from an unverified sources (or foreign IP), the email account could reveal only commercial email. Sadly that isn't what is happening. Just today I got a pop up for Dropbox containing a pre-checked box to "Automatically import when removable devices are connected." Import what? All photos. Sorry if I don't want to store pictures of my girlfriends naked in my Dropbox account. By the way, what country is known for harassing Americans at their border: Canada. I'd rather travel to Mexico in the middle of a drug war.
- pyre 14y ago
  By the way, what country is known for harassing Americans at their border: Canada. I'd rather travel to Mexico in the middle of a drug war. I've had the opposite experience. As an American citizen, I've gotten a worse experience going Canada => US than vice-versa. I've personally only been harassed once by Canadian border patrol, and at one point I was crossing the border every day for work (note: This is without any sort of 'special' clearance like the Nexus Pass). That said, I went to Tijuana once when there was apparently a 3-day riot at some high-security prison nearby and it took 4 hours in a 2-mile long line to get back across the border. I'd imagine that a drug war would be even worse.
  - Canada 14y ago
    It's a disgrace in both directions. Neither Americans or Canadians should tolerate the rude and invasive treatment we suffer at our borders.
- marcf 14y ago
  AJ007 wrote: > This just sounds like an attempt to keep individuals of certain backgrounds out of a country. Absolutely correct. The security officials believed that the individuals where pro-Palestinian activists. Here is a quote and article that details this: "The agent, suspecting Tamari was involved in pro-Palestinian activism, wanted to inspect her private email account for incriminating evidence. The 42-year-old American of Palestinian descent refused and was swiftly expelled from the country." http://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-palestinian-activist-says-she-was-expelled-for-refusing-to-log-in-to-her-email-at-the-airport/ http://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-palestinian-activist-says-s...
nyellin 14y ago
Please do not make broad statements about Israel based on one article. Israel allows civil unions, allows homosexuals to serve in the military without restrictions, supports Muslim private schools, pays for Islamic religious activities, and generally respects human rights. [1] We also have our warts, like everyone country does. Israeli politicians have attempted to pass our own Protecting Children from Internet Pornographers Act. We have our equivalents of the TSA, FBI, and CIA - and for us they are an existential necessity. Keep in mind that many - probably most - Israelis will be equally disturbed by this. Israel's Supreme Court has an excellent track record of ruling against military and government action. Their decisions are binding - there is no one above the law in Israel. Prime ministers, presidents, and intelligence organizations alike have been prosecuted. We're also only 60 years old, and have fought 7 major wars in that time, twice in such dire situations that it was widely believed we would fight to the last dead man and lose. Compare with other countries, or just MKULTRA, before you judge us so quickly. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Israel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Israel Edit: This is almost a societal-version of the fundamental attribution error. When your country does something wrong, you blame it on the politician or individual. When you hear about the same thing happening in another country, you wonder why that country is so backwards and evil.
- ajross 14y ago
  > Please do not make broad statements about Israel based on one article. Have any been made? The discussion here, at least, seems very civil and focused on the issue at hand. Israel is indeed a very laudable nation and people in many ways. But this behavior is awful, and has to be condemned.
  - nyellin 14y ago
    Then let me clarify: I condemn this as well. It has to stop. There have been comments below calling for America to stop supporting Israeli. I want to point out how exceptionally uncommon this type of behavior is.
    - Bud 14y ago
getpost 14y ago
How long before every government requires this kind of disclosure? What other types of invasive personal disclosure (e.g., cell phone records, health records) will be required, now that it's possible because the data is online? Requiring this disclosure at an international border is just a convenient pretext in the emerging dystopia. Human and civil rights need to be updated in light of emerging technologies. Unfortunately, that seems unlikely given, for example, the US government doesn't honor even its own outdated Bill of Rights in the most basic ways (i.e., by asserting its authority to kill US citizens on the President's word).
nivertech 14y ago
She probably lied about the purpose of her visit. If somebody read the linked articles, it's clear that this has noting to do with her ethnic background, but with her anti-Israeli political and economical activities. Not a terrorist, but still we have full right not letting her in.
- marcf 14y ago
  Israel does prevent those with sympathy to the Palestinians from entering Israel. I posted this quote/article in response to another comment but it is pertinent here: "The agent, suspecting Tamari was involved in pro-Palestinian activism, wanted to inspect her private email account for incriminating evidence. The 42-year-old American of Palestinian descent refused and was swiftly expelled from the country." http://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-palestinian-activist-says-she-was-expelled-for-refusing-to-log-in-to-her-email-at-the-airport/ http://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-palestinian-activist-says-s...
getpost 14y ago
On another note, this gives me an idea for a product. Auto-delete all email in your main account after some designated period or other rule(s), but keep separate encrypted backup.
DanBC2 14y ago
ASK HN: Is it possible for hot-button topics like this to be discussed without them descending into horrible flame-wars? These are the kind of topics that could be deeply interesting[1], but which tend to be discussed in a shallowly interesting way. HN does come pretty close (most of this discussion is, at the time I post this, really good) but these threads often end up as train wrecks. [1] I need to learn a lot more about many of these political / war / etc situations. I'm a bit embarrassed about my lack of knowledge of Northern Ireland; Israel / Palestine and so on.
jancurn 14y ago
I've had also quite strange experience when departing from the Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv two months ago. Neglecting the fact I got a very thorough security check for no apparent reason, have been asked questions like "Did you like it in Syria?", and got my pants wiped with a bomb detectors, the most humiliating thing that happened was that they asked me to unlock my iPhone and then walked away with it for a good few minutes. I have no idea what did they do with the phone, did they read my emails? check my photos? installed some spyware? I have no idea, but I'm sure if I rejected to unlock it, I would be missed my flight. I felt like crap after that. Interestingly, they didn't care about my second phone, an old Nokia, probably iPhone is more popular.

49 points by mxfh 14y ago

tnash 14y ago

Before any kind of Israel bashing starts, I want to say that unless you have lived under constant threat to your life like nearly all Israelis have during some point of their life, you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family. Nonetheless, this does seem a little overboard. From having personally been grilled by Israeli airport security, I can say that they are very thorough. I doubt they really need this intrusion to determine if someone is a threat, as it is easier for them to just not grant access, but I suppose if someone really needed to get into the country they could be willing to divulge the information. Security, in any form, is annoying. Implement two-factor on your gmail account, and it will occasionally annoy you when you have to dig out your phone for the code, and that's just to protect your email from prying eyes! What if you had to legitimately protect your life and the lives of your family? What kind of inconvenience would you accept for that protection? (Edit) Why is this downvoted? What did I say that did not add to the conversation? Just because you disagree with me? That's rather childish. I think my point is rather poignant, that security is a necessary evil, and that for some it is more necessary than others.

potatolicious 14y ago
> "you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family" This justifies things... how? Not to mention that imminent danger has been the mother of a huge number of evils in our time, and since time immemorial.
- tnash 14y ago
  So you're saying if someone were pointing a gun at your family, and you also had a gun pointed at them, you would refuse to use it out of a belief that you occupy some moral high ground?
  - click170 14y ago
    Rarher, I think they were saying that it would be prudent to be skeptical and cautious of anyone attempting to impose draconian laws or practices under the thinly veiled guise of "the british are coming" -- er sorry, "the baddies are coming".
  - potatolicious 14y ago
    I see that "non sequitor straw man analogy" is the special on the menu today. So, to be clear, I'm not saying anything about guns pointed my families. I'm talking about people's natural right to privacy and the overreach of government. These two things have nothing to do with each other and your attempt to connect them is both misleading and disingenuous.
    - tnash 14y ago
      Well, since you weren't clear, and still aren't, straw man it was. Your point is what? That privacy is sacrosanct? That we should live in a world where libertarianism rules all? What is your point? Stop me anytime. We're talking about the same thing here. Security abuses privacy, but is necessary. My point was, and still is, that for some it is more necessary than others. As we in the US and Western Europe don't live under constant threat to our lives, we accept less. However, Israelis do live under that threat, so they accept more.
      - excuse-me 14y ago
        >As we in the .. Western Europe don't live under constant threat to our lives Some of us did living in Belfast - and we would like to thank all those nice Americans in Boston for making it all possible.
  - ajross 14y ago
    That seems like a digression. The tourists in question were presumably unarmed, both literally and figuratively. Yet they had the metaphorical gun pointed at them anyway. I'm guessing that an implied part of your point is that because they had arab names, they might have had metaphorical guns? Yeah. That's the part that drew the downvotes.
toomuchtodo 14y ago
Unless you're a grossly incompetent terrorist, searching through your email isn't going to help you determine how much of a threat you are. Israel can continue what they're doing, but without any US policy or financial support if they continue to do so towards US citizens/legal residents.
- makomk 14y ago
  It's not going to help them determine how much of a threat someone is in terms of killing people. It's a very good way of determining how much of a threat someone's likely to be in terms of drawing attentions to the less savoury aspects of Israel's treatment of its Arab population. Edit: Good guess apparently. Look at the search keywords here: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-american-two-arab-american-womens-story-of-being-detained-and-interrogated-at-ben-gurion.html http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-...
  - marcf 14y ago
    It's weird that you were down voted for being factually correct.
- potatolicious 14y ago
  I don't support this sort of invasion of privacy, but FWIW most terrorists are grossly incompetent. We're not dealing with shadowy cabals of Dr. Evils, terrorists we've been able to apprehend have inevitably turned out to be strictly amateur. What they lack in operational sophistication they make up in dedication and deadliness.
tomjen3 14y ago
I would demand that my government did go around and committed genocide on my neighbors. I would demand that they treat the palestinians as humans -- so they wouldn't want to kill me. But that is just me.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
_pius 14y ago
Before any kind of Israel bashing starts, I want to say that unless you have lived under constant threat to your life like nearly all Israelis have during some point of their life, you cannot really grasp the lengths you will go to to preserve your life and the lives of your family. This is a really poor frame. People who disagree with this practice are not "Israel bashing," they're disagreeing with this policy. It's inappropriate to preemptively insinuate that those who disagree about a civil liberties issue are anti-Semitic.
- tnash 14y ago
  Well, you know, it's just, I've been on the internet. People tend to take things to extremes. Tech people tend to be liberal, and most liberals in the US have an anti-Israeli view. I prefer not to divulge my political leanings (but just because I agree with someone else on one point does not mean I agree with them on any other) but I know a very great deal about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict and its implications. I want to educate, and I don't want to see mindless bashing of Israel like I see on pretty much every tech forum where the topic comes up.
  - smokeyj 14y ago
    "and most liberals in the US have an anti-Israeli view." So you're trying to preemptively stop generalizations based on your generalizations? Honestly, who's paying you for your Israeli propaganda?
    - tnash 14y ago
      Yep that pretty much sums it up. I guess I am, since I'm taking time from work to write this stuff.
      - koide 14y ago
        This is a free piece of advice: try not to display your allegiance so clearly and so early (especially not before any bashing comment has even appeared!) A better approach to educate is to calmly correct each factually wrong statement, ideally with references. This way you'd avoid being classified early as a(n overreacting) shill, as that can only hamper your educational efforts.
marcf 14y ago
You will notice this isn't about security but about identifying pro-Palestinian activists: Quote: "The agent, suspecting Tamari was involved in pro-Palestinian activism, wanted to inspect her private email account for incriminating evidence. The 42-year-old American of Palestinian descent refused and was swiftly expelled from the country." http://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-palestinian-activist-says-she-was-expelled-for-refusing-to-log-in-to-her-email-at-the-airport/ http://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-palestinian-activist-says-s...

antr 14y ago

couldn't you just give a bogus email account, like an old hotmail account? It has my real name, and probably plenty of spam waiting to be opened, but that is about it. If airport security says anything against it I can simply say that I do not use email that often. Am I being too naive?

pavel_lishin 14y ago
Well, the penalty for disallowing access seems to be a refusal to allow you into the country. I imagine that giving access to a legitimate but old and useless e-mail address would be taken as a refusal, and you'd just get back on your plane and go home.
- toomuchtodo 14y ago
  It appears that even giving them your real email account will get you refused from the country. As a US citizen, I'm disappointed in Israel, and would prefer even less of my tax dollars are used to support them after this.
  - nyellin 14y ago
    Israel has an excellent Supreme Court which has stopped behavior like this in the past. From wikipedia: The Court has ruled on numerous issues relating to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the rights of Arab citizens of Israel, and on discrimination between Jewish groups in Israel. It is unique in that its rulings can intervene in Israel Defense Forces military operations. Most Israelis are equally ashamed of this. This isn't what your tax dollars support. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_Israel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_Israel
    - pavel_lishin 14y ago
      So my tax dollars support only the good things they do?
  - nivertech 14y ago

koide 14y ago

They may have more and better reasons than most to be obnoxious in airport security, but this measure is nothing more than security theater (or worse,) yet again. Now that this measure is public, any terrorist worth his salt will prepare a plausible and innocent looking email account.

alt_ 14y ago

No real content in the article for non-subscribers. Reddit comment[0] has (a) full story[1]. [0] http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ulvaj/israel_airport_security_demands_access_to/c4wiiyv http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ulvaj/israel_airp... [1] http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-american-two-arab-american-womens-story-of-being-detained-and-interrogated-at-ben-gurion.html http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-...

JumpCrisscross 14y ago
We may need a HN Guideline about paywalls
- mxfh 14y ago
  The paywall wasn't up when it was posted.
  - ajross 14y ago
    A bait and switch paywall? Is that a new thing?
  - js2 14y ago
    The Reddit link has no paywall apparently due to the query string: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-airport-security-demands-access-to-tourists-private-email-accounts-1.434509?localLinksEnabled=false http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-airport...
davidf18 14y ago
You could also just "google" for the headline to read the entire story....

davidf18 14y ago

I'm an American who has been to Israel countless times and unless you've been there you can't imagine the security situation. At the last moment I was saved from a terrorist attack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_BMW_attack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_BMW_attack when I went into a corner store to buy a candy bar hearing gunshots with girls running into the store before I could make my purchase. I have eaten at several locations that were later bombed by terrorists. I have been in Israel where terrorist bombs have blown up buses or the open market just a mile or so from where I was. A major difference between America and Israel: In America they search your bags on the way out of a store. In Israel they search your bags on the way in.

SODaniel 14y ago
Still no justification to require overly invasive security measures such as requiring access to personal communication etc. Also completely useless for anything than purely 'selecting' who you let in since I am going to assume a terrorist wouldn't exactly use terrorist185@hotmail.com and then hand the email over when asked.
- mayanksinghal 14y ago
  Exactly and Israel is not the only country that faces terrorism. India does as well, and as an Indian - I would out-rightly reject any such measures.
- planetguy 14y ago
  > Still no justification to require overly invasive security measures such as requiring access to personal communication etc Israel is full of overly invasive security measures. The alternative is probably just to bar access to the country altogether, or at least bar it to people of certain backgrounds.
- davidf18 14y ago
  I wouldn't second guess Israeli security measures...unlike TSA, these are highly trained people who undoubtedly have military training since with few exceptions (Arab or Orthodox Jewish) not only men but women are drafted for military service. If you don't like the security measures then don't go there.

AJ007 14y ago

This just sounds like an attempt to keep individuals of certain backgrounds out of a country. Ask a lot of invasive information and then refuse them entry. Entry information such as this should be aggregated in to travel warnings given about a particular country to minimize wasting a citizen time & money. Stories on how foreign countries treat privacy are important. American companies, in some part, have turned places like China in to zero-privacy zones that would have left George Orwell's head spinning. The post-FB generation of start ups should take very hard lines on privacy and build tools that employ obfuscation & client side decryption. For example, when logging in from an unverified sources (or foreign IP), the email account could reveal only commercial email. Sadly that isn't what is happening. Just today I got a pop up for Dropbox containing a pre-checked box to "Automatically import when removable devices are connected." Import what? All photos. Sorry if I don't want to store pictures of my girlfriends naked in my Dropbox account. By the way, what country is known for harassing Americans at their border: Canada. I'd rather travel to Mexico in the middle of a drug war.

pyre 14y ago
By the way, what country is known for harassing Americans at their border: Canada. I'd rather travel to Mexico in the middle of a drug war. I've had the opposite experience. As an American citizen, I've gotten a worse experience going Canada => US than vice-versa. I've personally only been harassed once by Canadian border patrol, and at one point I was crossing the border every day for work (note: This is without any sort of 'special' clearance like the Nexus Pass). That said, I went to Tijuana once when there was apparently a 3-day riot at some high-security prison nearby and it took 4 hours in a 2-mile long line to get back across the border. I'd imagine that a drug war would be even worse.
- Canada 14y ago
  It's a disgrace in both directions. Neither Americans or Canadians should tolerate the rude and invasive treatment we suffer at our borders.
marcf 14y ago
AJ007 wrote: > This just sounds like an attempt to keep individuals of certain backgrounds out of a country. Absolutely correct. The security officials believed that the individuals where pro-Palestinian activists. Here is a quote and article that details this: "The agent, suspecting Tamari was involved in pro-Palestinian activism, wanted to inspect her private email account for incriminating evidence. The 42-year-old American of Palestinian descent refused and was swiftly expelled from the country." http://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-palestinian-activist-says-she-was-expelled-for-refusing-to-log-in-to-her-email-at-the-airport/ http://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-palestinian-activist-says-s...

nyellin 14y ago

Please do not make broad statements about Israel based on one article. Israel allows civil unions, allows homosexuals to serve in the military without restrictions, supports Muslim private schools, pays for Islamic religious activities, and generally respects human rights. [1] We also have our warts, like everyone country does. Israeli politicians have attempted to pass our own Protecting Children from Internet Pornographers Act. We have our equivalents of the TSA, FBI, and CIA - and for us they are an existential necessity. Keep in mind that many - probably most - Israelis will be equally disturbed by this. Israel's Supreme Court has an excellent track record of ruling against military and government action. Their decisions are binding - there is no one above the law in Israel. Prime ministers, presidents, and intelligence organizations alike have been prosecuted. We're also only 60 years old, and have fought 7 major wars in that time, twice in such dire situations that it was widely believed we would fight to the last dead man and lose. Compare with other countries, or just MKULTRA, before you judge us so quickly. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Israel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Israel Edit: This is almost a societal-version of the fundamental attribution error. When your country does something wrong, you blame it on the politician or individual. When you hear about the same thing happening in another country, you wonder why that country is so backwards and evil.

ajross 14y ago
> Please do not make broad statements about Israel based on one article. Have any been made? The discussion here, at least, seems very civil and focused on the issue at hand. Israel is indeed a very laudable nation and people in many ways. But this behavior is awful, and has to be condemned.
- nyellin 14y ago
  Then let me clarify: I condemn this as well. It has to stop. There have been comments below calling for America to stop supporting Israeli. I want to point out how exceptionally uncommon this type of behavior is.
  - Bud 14y ago

getpost 14y ago

How long before every government requires this kind of disclosure? What other types of invasive personal disclosure (e.g., cell phone records, health records) will be required, now that it's possible because the data is online? Requiring this disclosure at an international border is just a convenient pretext in the emerging dystopia. Human and civil rights need to be updated in light of emerging technologies. Unfortunately, that seems unlikely given, for example, the US government doesn't honor even its own outdated Bill of Rights in the most basic ways (i.e., by asserting its authority to kill US citizens on the President's word).

nivertech 14y ago

She probably lied about the purpose of her visit. If somebody read the linked articles, it's clear that this has noting to do with her ethnic background, but with her anti-Israeli political and economical activities. Not a terrorist, but still we have full right not letting her in.

marcf 14y ago
Israel does prevent those with sympathy to the Palestinians from entering Israel. I posted this quote/article in response to another comment but it is pertinent here: "The agent, suspecting Tamari was involved in pro-Palestinian activism, wanted to inspect her private email account for incriminating evidence. The 42-year-old American of Palestinian descent refused and was swiftly expelled from the country." http://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-palestinian-activist-says-she-was-expelled-for-refusing-to-log-in-to-her-email-at-the-airport/ http://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-palestinian-activist-says-s...

getpost 14y ago

On another note, this gives me an idea for a product. Auto-delete all email in your main account after some designated period or other rule(s), but keep separate encrypted backup.

DanBC2 14y ago

ASK HN: Is it possible for hot-button topics like this to be discussed without them descending into horrible flame-wars? These are the kind of topics that could be deeply interesting[1], but which tend to be discussed in a shallowly interesting way. HN does come pretty close (most of this discussion is, at the time I post this, really good) but these threads often end up as train wrecks. [1] I need to learn a lot more about many of these political / war / etc situations. I'm a bit embarrassed about my lack of knowledge of Northern Ireland; Israel / Palestine and so on.

jancurn 14y ago

I've had also quite strange experience when departing from the Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv two months ago. Neglecting the fact I got a very thorough security check for no apparent reason, have been asked questions like "Did you like it in Syria?", and got my pants wiped with a bomb detectors, the most humiliating thing that happened was that they asked me to unlock my iPhone and then walked away with it for a good few minutes. I have no idea what did they do with the phone, did they read my emails? check my photos? installed some spyware? I have no idea, but I'm sure if I rejected to unlock it, I would be missed my flight. I felt like crap after that. Interestingly, they didn't care about my second phone, an old Nokia, probably iPhone is more popular.