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Kubernetes attacked by patent troll Intellectual Ventures

53 points by zoobab 2y ago

Arch-TK 2y ago
"system of communication via virtual networks" Wow, amazing. Why don't they just patent the process of filing for a patent already? I bet they could troll so many people doing that.
betaby 2y ago
I read the patent. It is BS, literally bunch of garbage in a file.
Thaxll 2y ago
This is gold: https://www.intellectualventures.com/who-we-are/meet-iv/ https://www.intellectualventures.com/who-we-are/meet-iv/ “I really like the fundamentals behind patent law,” says Michelle Macartney, director, IP attorney for Intellectual Ventures (IV). “It’s a fascinating area of law, this fine balance between fostering innovation and not going too far in granting monopolies.”
- mjhay 2y ago
  > “I really like the fundamentals behind patent law,” I bet she does. Rent seekers usually win in policy fights, because they usually have the surplus, incentive, and narrow policy focus to put more into maintaining and expanding their rent than the counterparties who suffer. It's a huge drag on the economy and makes almost everyone's lives worse, and a select few's lives very slightly better.
fizlebit 2y ago
When is the government going to realize that software and business process patents are bullshit and that they should be wholesale dismantled. I suspect the same should be true for mechanical, civil, and chemical engineering. Eg TSMC doesn’t need patent protection, they can just be the very best manufacturer of chips.
- jasonvorhe 2y ago
  I don't think it's a matter of understanding, unfortunately.
- hulitu 2y ago
  > When is the government going to realize that software and business process patents are bullshit and that they should be wholesale dismantled. When lobby will be treated like corruption.
blinding-streak 2y ago
This is one of the more confusing articles I've ever attempted to read.
moshegramovsky 2y ago
If I'm not mistaken, isn't Nathan Myhrvold the founder of Intellectual Ventures? I used to drive by one of their offices on 132nd in Bellevue fairly often. Now that I've Googled it, I'm quite surprised to see what Intellectual Ventures engages in quite a lot of patent litigation. I thought he was a venture capitalist or something. The last thing I remember from him was a series of elaborate cookbooks.
- mjhay 2y ago
  Yes. Myhvold still maintains deep connections to MSFT as well.
- dugmartin 2y ago
  In a just world Nathan Myhrvold will be on his deathbed and a simple device could save his life but it can't be turned on because it violates IVs patent on power buttons.
winddude 2y ago
lol, how to do these patents get granted? Most patents seem like compete BS.
- betaby 2y ago
  They are. Just pay couple of hundreds, submit some garbage and you are all set. The tricky part is how to litigate in order to collect some coins from the legit businesses.
jand 2y ago
half-serious question: What is the omnipresent "defined by a domain name" in the "claims"-section of the patent (see [1]) all about? To me it seems unfit as a defining criterion for a network. [1] https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/patents/patent/US-7949785-B2 https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/patents/patent/US-7949785-...
yourapostasy 2y ago
Can someone please explain how the patent covers non-obvious work? This reads to me like tunneling with VPN's, and after we have so many on our hands, that one naturally reaches for sprinkling some conventions and automation on top. We were doing this in the late 90's by hand, and the connections were so expensive we didn't run up enough instances to warrant establishing conventions and writing the code to automate them, but it was obvious that was the direction once bandwidth prices got less insane. Just curious what I'm missing (as they wouldn't have put this suit forward if they didn't feel they had a very good shot at collecting, right?).
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  A very good shot at collecting is not always related to the merits of the suit. "Collecting" can mean "being paid a smaller amount to go away, because the target doesn't want to risk the chance of losing in court".
gmuslera 2y ago
Could be interesting to take out all the ecosystem of open source software even remotely targeted by this attack out of that company, members, related companies, judges and so on that may think this is reasonable, and so on. Give them in particular, and all their related people (up to their children), a sample of a world without those technologies. Bricked phones, very outdated desktop OSs, no social networks, no cloud, and so on. And that for a meaningful time (months or years). Eat your own dogfood, or reaping what they sow. Even trying this kind of joke should have immediate and heavy consequences. Its more related to crime than to law.

53 points by zoobab 2y ago

"system of communication via virtual networks" Wow, amazing. Why don't they just patent the process of filing for a patent already? I bet they could troll so many people doing that.

betaby 2y ago

I read the patent. It is BS, literally bunch of garbage in a file.

Thaxll 2y ago

This is gold: https://www.intellectualventures.com/who-we-are/meet-iv/ https://www.intellectualventures.com/who-we-are/meet-iv/ “I really like the fundamentals behind patent law,” says Michelle Macartney, director, IP attorney for Intellectual Ventures (IV). “It’s a fascinating area of law, this fine balance between fostering innovation and not going too far in granting monopolies.”

mjhay 2y ago
> “I really like the fundamentals behind patent law,” I bet she does. Rent seekers usually win in policy fights, because they usually have the surplus, incentive, and narrow policy focus to put more into maintaining and expanding their rent than the counterparties who suffer. It's a huge drag on the economy and makes almost everyone's lives worse, and a select few's lives very slightly better.

fizlebit 2y ago

When is the government going to realize that software and business process patents are bullshit and that they should be wholesale dismantled. I suspect the same should be true for mechanical, civil, and chemical engineering. Eg TSMC doesn’t need patent protection, they can just be the very best manufacturer of chips.

jasonvorhe 2y ago
I don't think it's a matter of understanding, unfortunately.
hulitu 2y ago
> When is the government going to realize that software and business process patents are bullshit and that they should be wholesale dismantled. When lobby will be treated like corruption.

blinding-streak 2y ago

This is one of the more confusing articles I've ever attempted to read.

moshegramovsky 2y ago

If I'm not mistaken, isn't Nathan Myhrvold the founder of Intellectual Ventures? I used to drive by one of their offices on 132nd in Bellevue fairly often. Now that I've Googled it, I'm quite surprised to see what Intellectual Ventures engages in quite a lot of patent litigation. I thought he was a venture capitalist or something. The last thing I remember from him was a series of elaborate cookbooks.

mjhay 2y ago
Yes. Myhvold still maintains deep connections to MSFT as well.
dugmartin 2y ago
In a just world Nathan Myhrvold will be on his deathbed and a simple device could save his life but it can't be turned on because it violates IVs patent on power buttons.

winddude 2y ago

lol, how to do these patents get granted? Most patents seem like compete BS.

betaby 2y ago
They are. Just pay couple of hundreds, submit some garbage and you are all set. The tricky part is how to litigate in order to collect some coins from the legit businesses.

jand 2y ago

half-serious question: What is the omnipresent "defined by a domain name" in the "claims"-section of the patent (see [1]) all about? To me it seems unfit as a defining criterion for a network. [1] https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/patents/patent/US-7949785-B2 https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/patents/patent/US-7949785-...

yourapostasy 2y ago

Can someone please explain how the patent covers non-obvious work? This reads to me like tunneling with VPN's, and after we have so many on our hands, that one naturally reaches for sprinkling some conventions and automation on top. We were doing this in the late 90's by hand, and the connections were so expensive we didn't run up enough instances to warrant establishing conventions and writing the code to automate them, but it was obvious that was the direction once bandwidth prices got less insane. Just curious what I'm missing (as they wouldn't have put this suit forward if they didn't feel they had a very good shot at collecting, right?).

AnimalMuppet 2y ago
A very good shot at collecting is not always related to the merits of the suit. "Collecting" can mean "being paid a smaller amount to go away, because the target doesn't want to risk the chance of losing in court".

gmuslera 2y ago

Could be interesting to take out all the ecosystem of open source software even remotely targeted by this attack out of that company, members, related companies, judges and so on that may think this is reasonable, and so on. Give them in particular, and all their related people (up to their children), a sample of a world without those technologies. Bricked phones, very outdated desktop OSs, no social networks, no cloud, and so on. And that for a meaningful time (months or years). Eat your own dogfood, or reaping what they sow. Even trying this kind of joke should have immediate and heavy consequences. Its more related to crime than to law.