5 ms·
As both a scientist and avid Diablo 2 player, this blog post is laughable in its superficiality and its claims. TL;DR: Diablo 3 was WoWified: broke itemization
by d3throwaway 14y ago
As both a scientist and avid Diablo 2 player, this blog post is laughable in its superficiality and its claims.
TL;DR: Diablo 3 was WoWified: broke itemization and skill builds, and thus replayability.
In D3, finding a rare item is "ID, does it have those stats? Yes: keep, No: salvage". Brainless.
In D2, finding a rare item is "ID, weird combination of stats, but I don't think anyone wants this so I'll throw it away, go to d2jsp and find some absurdly rich player wanting that ridiculous combination and kicking yourself for vendoring it".
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Background: thousands of hours manually farming and botting Diablo 2 since vanilla release, equivalent time spent trading/on d2jsp (most of this will refer to 1.09 since that is most fresh in my mind). Also lvl 60 demon hunter in Diablo 3 Inferno Act 3.
Please don't argue that D2 was just as broken on release. The D3 team had YEARS of experience to look back on.
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1) D2 was all about plowing through monsters. If you were underleveled or undergeared, bosses should be somewhat difficult. If you were reasonably prepared, bosses should be fairly easy. If you even had decent gear, bosses should be a joke.
D3, on the other hand, treats everything like a WoW raid. Hours of grinding to prepare for a fight, min-maxing forcing everyone into a single class or build (energy armor wizard or PMS demon hunter?), and even then, the fights are difficult( vs champions/elites).
Why is this important? Because D2 was so "easy", many many skill builds were viable. Wanted to roll a melee sorc? Go ahead. Fishymancer ( = pet wd in d3)? Works. Throwing barb? Surprisingly strong. Thorns + fire aura pally? Too good.
The proliferation of crazy builds is important, as it makes a MUCH larger proportion of items valuable. This will tie in with the next point.
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2) D3 itemization is broken. First, there are very, very few item stats that are important. Weapon DPS, main stat, vitality, resist all. Maybe atk speed, crit, crit dmg, move speed. Everything else is garbage. Health globe radius, seriously?
What made many D2 builds viable was the much larger variety of item effects, as well as lack of dependence on stats. Life tap wands made smiters useful, enigma was good for everyone, infinity runeward allowed lightning sorcs and javazons to fight lightning immune, etc.
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3) Rare items. The above 2 problems, when taken together, kill the D3 end-game. D2 was all about making a MF build, getting some money, then making a bunch of crazy characters, either min-maxing MF or PVP or Baal runs or something, but there was a ton of variety in what you could do. End game economy revolved around rare items.
In D3, finding a rare item is "ID, does it have those stats? Yes: keep, No: salvage". Brainless.
In D2, finding a rare item is "ID, weird combination of stats, but I don't think anyone wants this so I'll throw it away, go to d2jsp and find some absurdly rich player wanting that ridiculous combination and kicking yourself for vendoring it". This means that botting was difficult, because the really big $$ items are ones you wouldn't even recognize, and stash size was a limitation.
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Anyways, that's why I stopped playing D3. I really don't think they can fix these problems without very large patches, which seems unlikely coming from actiblizzard.
- d3throwaway 14y agoI'm kind of sad that this was downvoted. I thought on hacker news downvotes were used for factually incorrect or trolling posts, and I don't think this post is either. Can I get an explanation for the downvotes at least?
- cldrope 14y agoI can't downvote so I cannot say. But my theory is that while you provide some good information both your format and tone are not really in line with people here. I took no offense coming from a hacking perspective, as it's normal to be fairly caustic. But this is merely called hacker news, it's mostly for startups related to the tech industry. I only come here for the occasional papers and such, but little programmatically is learned. I even asked for employment advice at one point and it was probably the slowest and least visited ASK HN that day, despite some person of "i need handout" quality having a very popular one the same day.
- d3throwaway 14y agoHaha, I can understand that the intersection of hardcore Diablo 2 players and startup enthusiasts is small ( I'm well aware games are fun, but are a completely unproductive use of time :) ). I guess this really isn't the proper place to discuss this topic, as the longevity of Diablo 2 can only really be understood by players who contribute to that longevity, ie put in many, many hours.
- javajosh 14y agoI read the post and am not sure why people downvoted. I have sneaking suspicion that because snarky, trolling posts are universally disallowed, people resort to snarky downvoting. Not the best solution, but I guess people need an outlet. I upvoted you to counter a little. Anyway, this is more of a personal question. I was wondering if you've actually looked deeper into the personal question of why loot drops, etc, even constitute a reward. This is not blackberry juice! It is manipulation of RAM that affects the display. I play D3, and the closest I've come to understand is that it's the challenge of maintaining forward progress against increasing resistance. In which case the OP is correct - one waits for resistance to grow too high, go the AH, buy new gear. The other option, of course, is to adopt/discover a new strategy (which can then drive your gear choices, of course). But really my question (which is still a bit perplexing) is why I want to maintain forward progress going through content that I've already seen.