4 ms·

Be thankful that consumer/hobbyist drones haven't been banned entirely already (banning other model aircraft along with them as collateral damage). Especially

Be thankful that consumer/hobbyist drones haven't been banned entirely already (banning other model aircraft along with them as collateral damage). Especially after all the footage of essentially-hobby-grade drones with familiar open-source flight controller software being turned into very effective weapons of war in Ukraine.

Teever 2y ago
We'll what happens after the first public vigilante action against a corrupt cop who got a paid vacation instead of a jail sentence. But I think that the cat is out of the bag and that DRM will be the attempted solution to this kind stuff. It's going to go poorly though. What part can you regulate and control? Not the batteries or the motors, or the off the shelf microcontrollers.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  They could put anybody who assembles those parts into a drone into prison. Of course it would still be technically feasible to make one anyway, just as it's technically feasible to make an autosear, or for that matter a whole gun. Doesn't mean it can't be banned.
  - Teever 2y ago
    If they weren't able to stop people from growing and distributing marijuana then I doubt they'll be able to stop this.
    - vkou 2y ago
      They can't stop them all, but they definitely stopped anyone they caught.
    - Retric 2y ago
      It takes minimal skills or effort to grow pot. This is closer to banning moonshine which was arguably fairly effective.
      - dylan604 2y ago
        Whoa there big fella. Let's not denigrate weed growers with your broad brush trying to a make a point. Anyone that believes growing pot takes minimal effort clearly does not know what they are talking about. Maybe you can just drop some seeds in the ground somewhere, and maybe a pot plant will grow, but good weed will not be a plant of any value what so ever.
        6510 2y ago
        My joke was to ask who is in charge, the pot grower or the plants? You get people who don't know personal hygiene, cant cook, cant run an agenda, cant read a book, cant pay their bills in time, cant keep a cactus alive. They cant do any of those things if their life depended on it. Then all of a sudden they are busy every waking hour doing all of those things to perfection and they talk like professors. Not to mention the possible consequences. If the plants had legs, arms, a brain and access to the internet they would be doing and thinking precisely the same things. Who do you think has the pants on?
        Retric 2y ago
        Low effort doesn’t mean zero effort. 19 states legalized home cultivation and many people are perfectly happy with what they get with minimal effort. Even in states where they can legally buy a higher quality product. > not be a plant of any value what so ever It’s long been a perfectly viable strategy to plant pot on public lands and then come back for harvest. That doesn’t mean people are tossing seeds randomly, but lower rewards are balanced by lower risks. Some customers are always interested in savings cash even for a terrible product.
      - 6510 2y ago
        True but some efforts are way beyond what is done in agriculture. They for example have been mutation breeding[0] since it was discovered on much larger scale than public efforts. The mutants check all possible boxes except taste. Grow faster, drinks more, more THC, resistant to heat and diseases, likes light 24/7 even while flowering, all the same size, no branches, few leafs, easier to clone. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding
    - lupusreal 2y ago
      Doesn't stop them from making marijuana illegal and putting people in prison, does it? That said, I think enforcement would be more effective for drones. Marijuana can be effectively enjoyed in the privacy of your own home, but that's only true for a limited extent of drones. They're noisy and usually flown out in the open where annoyed neighbors can narc on you. Furthermore, just my subjective guess, I think people will be more willing to break the rules to enjoy marijuana than to enjoy drones. Marijuana is very effective at making a shit life tolerable, so people are more willing to break the law for it (and alcohol, etc).
      - Teever 2y ago
        No, but them making marijuana illegal and putting people in prison for it didn't really stop millions of people from having regular access to it. And it'll be the same here in this context. If the government wants to make drones illegal because people are using them domestically for vigilante/terrorism purposes that'll be quite difficult. People regularly ran clandestine grow operations that used 100kw+ of power for years and were never caught. If there's a desire for drones to commit crimes than someone will easily be able to make a clandestine drone factory.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
hooverd 2y ago
Or 3D printers! You can print scary "ghost guns" with them. And they're mostly made in China. Although maybe Stratasys will push for that next now that they're lost their stranglehold on the market.
- kuschku 2y ago
  While the cheaper 3D printers are mostly chinese, Prusa is still a non-chinese option :)
  - 91bananas 2y ago
    While this is true and I own a Prusa MK4, they're so behind it's not even funny.
    - stavros 2y ago
      This is true, they'd gotten too complacent and now Bambu is eating their lunch.
    - jononor 2y ago
      While Bamboo etc are one head in front of Prusa now, they are still very close in the context of printing weapons. I mean, neither are particularly suited compared to a CNC mill or lathe. And both have come quite a long way since what we had 10-15 years ago, when FDM for non-industrial users got started.
    - kuschku 2y ago
      That depends entirely on your definition of "behind". The MK4 delivers pretty much the same quality at the same speed as the P1P. Paying 30% more to get an open-source, fully modular, fully repairable and customizable product that's made sustainably with fair wages is not a huge markup. I'd gladly pay 30% more to get an Android phone that's fully modular, open-source, repairable, upgradable and made in the EU.
      - somehnguy 2y ago
lupusreal 2y ago
The bans are inevitable. It's only a matter of time before somebody tries to drop a pipe bomb on a politician.
- haroldp 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Caracas_drone_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Caracas_drone_attack
- bluescrn 2y ago
  They wouldn't want to use a firearm for that. Might get guns banned...
- chasd00 2y ago
  I hope not, i'm pretty involved in the high power rocketry hobby and the materials/electronics and knowledge exist in the hobby to make something like a guided surface-to-surface rocket with a range in 10s of miles but no one does because it would instantly ruin the hobby for everyone. A friend of mine in heavy into r/c planes and is an embedded engineer so he has a bunch of autopilot stuff going on. I'm sure he can scale as high as he wants (he's also a private pilot) and fly a heavy payload to a point on a map autonomously. Again, no one does it because it would ruin the hobby for everyone. Lots of people want to do this but the place for it is like a DARPA challenge not in the general hobby. If the authorities got wind of it then down come the regulations and no more hobby.
  - mrandish 2y ago
    Yes, as a long-time fixed-wing RC hobbyist, it's generally the newbie idiots who do stupid things that threaten the entire hobby. Despite all the new rules (which I don't even bother to keep up with anymore), I still fly my planes like I always have. And just like always, I don't bother anyone and no one bothers me.
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    The problem for drones is easily weaponizable models exist off the shelf for people with malicious intentions and no interest in preserving the hobby. To weaponized a rocket requires more intellectual investment.
ribosometronome 2y ago
Would turning drones into arms not make them more, rather than less, protected in the US?
- stavros 2y ago
  I like the way you think.
- cjbgkagh 2y ago
  Explosive drones would be a destructive device. I don't know about drone mounted firearms though.
- lagniappe 2y ago
  No
  - neuronexmachina 2y ago
    "Shall not be infringed!"
123yawaworht456 2y ago
grenades are sold separately though.
- _joel 2y ago
  "Batteries not included" just won't have the same ring again.
outside1234 2y ago
Just need to attach a trigger to the drone and then it can kill as many people as it wants without being regulated.
yreg 2y ago
Everyone knew that they would be easy to convert into very effective weapons since the very start, no?

Teever 2y ago

We'll what happens after the first public vigilante action against a corrupt cop who got a paid vacation instead of a jail sentence. But I think that the cat is out of the bag and that DRM will be the attempted solution to this kind stuff. It's going to go poorly though. What part can you regulate and control? Not the batteries or the motors, or the off the shelf microcontrollers.

lupusreal 2y ago
They could put anybody who assembles those parts into a drone into prison. Of course it would still be technically feasible to make one anyway, just as it's technically feasible to make an autosear, or for that matter a whole gun. Doesn't mean it can't be banned.
- Teever 2y ago
  If they weren't able to stop people from growing and distributing marijuana then I doubt they'll be able to stop this.
  - vkou 2y ago
    They can't stop them all, but they definitely stopped anyone they caught.
  - Retric 2y ago
    It takes minimal skills or effort to grow pot. This is closer to banning moonshine which was arguably fairly effective.
    - dylan604 2y ago
      Whoa there big fella. Let's not denigrate weed growers with your broad brush trying to a make a point. Anyone that believes growing pot takes minimal effort clearly does not know what they are talking about. Maybe you can just drop some seeds in the ground somewhere, and maybe a pot plant will grow, but good weed will not be a plant of any value what so ever.
      - 6510 2y ago
        My joke was to ask who is in charge, the pot grower or the plants? You get people who don't know personal hygiene, cant cook, cant run an agenda, cant read a book, cant pay their bills in time, cant keep a cactus alive. They cant do any of those things if their life depended on it. Then all of a sudden they are busy every waking hour doing all of those things to perfection and they talk like professors. Not to mention the possible consequences. If the plants had legs, arms, a brain and access to the internet they would be doing and thinking precisely the same things. Who do you think has the pants on?
      - Retric 2y ago
        Low effort doesn’t mean zero effort. 19 states legalized home cultivation and many people are perfectly happy with what they get with minimal effort. Even in states where they can legally buy a higher quality product. > not be a plant of any value what so ever It’s long been a perfectly viable strategy to plant pot on public lands and then come back for harvest. That doesn’t mean people are tossing seeds randomly, but lower rewards are balanced by lower risks. Some customers are always interested in savings cash even for a terrible product.
    - 6510 2y ago
      True but some efforts are way beyond what is done in agriculture. They for example have been mutation breeding[0] since it was discovered on much larger scale than public efforts. The mutants check all possible boxes except taste. Grow faster, drinks more, more THC, resistant to heat and diseases, likes light 24/7 even while flowering, all the same size, no branches, few leafs, easier to clone. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    Doesn't stop them from making marijuana illegal and putting people in prison, does it? That said, I think enforcement would be more effective for drones. Marijuana can be effectively enjoyed in the privacy of your own home, but that's only true for a limited extent of drones. They're noisy and usually flown out in the open where annoyed neighbors can narc on you. Furthermore, just my subjective guess, I think people will be more willing to break the rules to enjoy marijuana than to enjoy drones. Marijuana is very effective at making a shit life tolerable, so people are more willing to break the law for it (and alcohol, etc).
    - Teever 2y ago
      No, but them making marijuana illegal and putting people in prison for it didn't really stop millions of people from having regular access to it. And it'll be the same here in this context. If the government wants to make drones illegal because people are using them domestically for vigilante/terrorism purposes that'll be quite difficult. People regularly ran clandestine grow operations that used 100kw+ of power for years and were never caught. If there's a desire for drones to commit crimes than someone will easily be able to make a clandestine drone factory.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

hooverd 2y ago

Or 3D printers! You can print scary "ghost guns" with them. And they're mostly made in China. Although maybe Stratasys will push for that next now that they're lost their stranglehold on the market.

kuschku 2y ago
While the cheaper 3D printers are mostly chinese, Prusa is still a non-chinese option :)
- 91bananas 2y ago
  While this is true and I own a Prusa MK4, they're so behind it's not even funny.
  - stavros 2y ago
    This is true, they'd gotten too complacent and now Bambu is eating their lunch.
  - jononor 2y ago
    While Bamboo etc are one head in front of Prusa now, they are still very close in the context of printing weapons. I mean, neither are particularly suited compared to a CNC mill or lathe. And both have come quite a long way since what we had 10-15 years ago, when FDM for non-industrial users got started.
  - kuschku 2y ago
    That depends entirely on your definition of "behind". The MK4 delivers pretty much the same quality at the same speed as the P1P. Paying 30% more to get an open-source, fully modular, fully repairable and customizable product that's made sustainably with fair wages is not a huge markup. I'd gladly pay 30% more to get an Android phone that's fully modular, open-source, repairable, upgradable and made in the EU.
    - somehnguy 2y ago

lupusreal 2y ago

The bans are inevitable. It's only a matter of time before somebody tries to drop a pipe bomb on a politician.

haroldp 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Caracas_drone_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Caracas_drone_attack
bluescrn 2y ago
They wouldn't want to use a firearm for that. Might get guns banned...
chasd00 2y ago
I hope not, i'm pretty involved in the high power rocketry hobby and the materials/electronics and knowledge exist in the hobby to make something like a guided surface-to-surface rocket with a range in 10s of miles but no one does because it would instantly ruin the hobby for everyone. A friend of mine in heavy into r/c planes and is an embedded engineer so he has a bunch of autopilot stuff going on. I'm sure he can scale as high as he wants (he's also a private pilot) and fly a heavy payload to a point on a map autonomously. Again, no one does it because it would ruin the hobby for everyone. Lots of people want to do this but the place for it is like a DARPA challenge not in the general hobby. If the authorities got wind of it then down come the regulations and no more hobby.
- mrandish 2y ago
  Yes, as a long-time fixed-wing RC hobbyist, it's generally the newbie idiots who do stupid things that threaten the entire hobby. Despite all the new rules (which I don't even bother to keep up with anymore), I still fly my planes like I always have. And just like always, I don't bother anyone and no one bothers me.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  The problem for drones is easily weaponizable models exist off the shelf for people with malicious intentions and no interest in preserving the hobby. To weaponized a rocket requires more intellectual investment.

ribosometronome 2y ago

Would turning drones into arms not make them more, rather than less, protected in the US?

stavros 2y ago
I like the way you think.
cjbgkagh 2y ago
Explosive drones would be a destructive device. I don't know about drone mounted firearms though.
lagniappe 2y ago
No
- neuronexmachina 2y ago
  "Shall not be infringed!"

123yawaworht456 2y ago

grenades are sold separately though.

_joel 2y ago
"Batteries not included" just won't have the same ring again.

outside1234 2y ago

Just need to attach a trigger to the drone and then it can kill as many people as it wants without being regulated.

yreg 2y ago

Everyone knew that they would be easy to convert into very effective weapons since the very start, no?