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There should be an official supported way to obtain advanced access to your device. This seems like an awfully arbitrary statement. Why should there be an off

by j_baker 14y ago

There should be an official supported way to obtain advanced access to your device. This seems like an awfully arbitrary statement. Why should there be an official way to get access to the filesystem?

tensor 14y ago
For all the same reasons that you can do so on OS X. I'm also lumping in the ability to side load apps here, among other features pros might need or want. I'm aware of all the arguments for their completely closed eco-system. But OSX itself is also a perfect example to counter them. Fundamentally, portable touch screen devices are still computers and are not actually so different that such a closed environment is needed.
- fjarlq 14y ago
  But to many people, the difference between OSX and iOS is large. I think this is one of the reasons why iOS has been so much more successful than OSX. The closed, curated environment is much easier to use for many people. A natural extension of this is a Mac that runs iOS, or making OSX more like iOS. I think this is happening, and it's being driven by what most people want. It may not be what I personally want, but fortunately there is more than one choice these days.
  - tensor 14y ago
    Unfortunately, for me there is really no good alternative to OSX. I require a unix environment for work, and yet also need word, photoshop, and other such applications. If I left OSX I'd be forced to run either Windows with a Linux VM, or Linux with a Windows VM. It would be clunky for sure. Also, I completely disagree that iOSs success is due to it being closed. As the current OSX environment shows, it is completely possible to have both an App Store yet not discard your professional customers. I can tell my mother to only use the App Store and she is perfectly happy. Apple is removing control for a single reason only: money. They want their 30% of every sale on their devices. This is a good reason for them, but a bad reason for their customers.
andrewflnr 14y ago
Because we're consumers, and we want one. Do you really need another reason?
- jpxxx 14y ago
  Yes. Not all consumers are alike, and adding even a single button for your file system idea will make it a worse product for 95% of the other customers.
  - andrewflnr 14y ago
    I don't believe that. Maybe I'm "still too young", but I believe that you can design a system that's friendly to both the "95%" and power users. It may be hard, but not impossible.
    - jpxxx 14y ago
      You need to explain what you mean by friendly filesystem. As it is, iOS is too complex for a majority of its users. For starters, they don't understand what a file is, they don't understand what a folder+directory is, they don't understand what metadata is, and they've never had to know what we understand as a filesystem for the last five years in order to use their phone effectively. You and I could figure out anything Apple offered instantly, and it wouldn't be difficult for them to program at all. But for the 95% of people who conceptually couldn't grasp what it's offering, it's another mysterious button on the screen that is taking them to a place they don't get. It adds to the cognitive load of the experience, adds to the UI, and makes them feel less 'with it' when their son or daughter tries to show them how to use the paperclip to attach multiple photos. They struggle with cut and paste, they struggle with how to search in Safari mobile (YES), they struggle with settings, and even things like multiple email accounts can get unmanageably complicated for them. Even if the filesystem implementation was utterly neutered and bumpered, it is still fundamentally not making iOS a better product for the great majority of those who would use it. I would strangle for a real filesystem, believe me, but Apple and the market have spoken on this.
- j_baker 14y ago

by j_baker 14y ago

tensor 14y ago

For all the same reasons that you can do so on OS X. I'm also lumping in the ability to side load apps here, among other features pros might need or want. I'm aware of all the arguments for their completely closed eco-system. But OSX itself is also a perfect example to counter them. Fundamentally, portable touch screen devices are still computers and are not actually so different that such a closed environment is needed.

fjarlq 14y ago
But to many people, the difference between OSX and iOS is large. I think this is one of the reasons why iOS has been so much more successful than OSX. The closed, curated environment is much easier to use for many people. A natural extension of this is a Mac that runs iOS, or making OSX more like iOS. I think this is happening, and it's being driven by what most people want. It may not be what I personally want, but fortunately there is more than one choice these days.
- tensor 14y ago
  Unfortunately, for me there is really no good alternative to OSX. I require a unix environment for work, and yet also need word, photoshop, and other such applications. If I left OSX I'd be forced to run either Windows with a Linux VM, or Linux with a Windows VM. It would be clunky for sure. Also, I completely disagree that iOSs success is due to it being closed. As the current OSX environment shows, it is completely possible to have both an App Store yet not discard your professional customers. I can tell my mother to only use the App Store and she is perfectly happy. Apple is removing control for a single reason only: money. They want their 30% of every sale on their devices. This is a good reason for them, but a bad reason for their customers.

andrewflnr 14y ago

Because we're consumers, and we want one. Do you really need another reason?

jpxxx 14y ago
Yes. Not all consumers are alike, and adding even a single button for your file system idea will make it a worse product for 95% of the other customers.
- andrewflnr 14y ago
  I don't believe that. Maybe I'm "still too young", but I believe that you can design a system that's friendly to both the "95%" and power users. It may be hard, but not impossible.
  - jpxxx 14y ago
    You need to explain what you mean by friendly filesystem. As it is, iOS is too complex for a majority of its users. For starters, they don't understand what a file is, they don't understand what a folder+directory is, they don't understand what metadata is, and they've never had to know what we understand as a filesystem for the last five years in order to use their phone effectively. You and I could figure out anything Apple offered instantly, and it wouldn't be difficult for them to program at all. But for the 95% of people who conceptually couldn't grasp what it's offering, it's another mysterious button on the screen that is taking them to a place they don't get. It adds to the cognitive load of the experience, adds to the UI, and makes them feel less 'with it' when their son or daughter tries to show them how to use the paperclip to attach multiple photos. They struggle with cut and paste, they struggle with how to search in Safari mobile (YES), they struggle with settings, and even things like multiple email accounts can get unmanageably complicated for them. Even if the filesystem implementation was utterly neutered and bumpered, it is still fundamentally not making iOS a better product for the great majority of those who would use it. I would strangle for a real filesystem, believe me, but Apple and the market have spoken on this.
j_baker 14y ago