6 ms·

It does sound like iOS, except for the fact that iOS has no fallbacks for pros to access the file system, modify the OS, or otherwise manage it like the portabl

by tensor 14y ago

It does sound like iOS, except for the fact that iOS has no fallbacks for pros to access the file system, modify the OS, or otherwise manage it like the portable computer it is. Before someone mentions jailbreaking, I'd just like to say that jailbreaking is not a suitable solution. There should be an official supported way to obtain advanced access to your device.

j_baker 14y ago
There should be an official supported way to obtain advanced access to your device. This seems like an awfully arbitrary statement. Why should there be an official way to get access to the filesystem?
- tensor 14y ago
  For all the same reasons that you can do so on OS X. I'm also lumping in the ability to side load apps here, among other features pros might need or want. I'm aware of all the arguments for their completely closed eco-system. But OSX itself is also a perfect example to counter them. Fundamentally, portable touch screen devices are still computers and are not actually so different that such a closed environment is needed.
  - fjarlq 14y ago
    But to many people, the difference between OSX and iOS is large. I think this is one of the reasons why iOS has been so much more successful than OSX. The closed, curated environment is much easier to use for many people. A natural extension of this is a Mac that runs iOS, or making OSX more like iOS. I think this is happening, and it's being driven by what most people want. It may not be what I personally want, but fortunately there is more than one choice these days.
    - tensor 14y ago
      Unfortunately, for me there is really no good alternative to OSX. I require a unix environment for work, and yet also need word, photoshop, and other such applications. If I left OSX I'd be forced to run either Windows with a Linux VM, or Linux with a Windows VM. It would be clunky for sure. Also, I completely disagree that iOSs success is due to it being closed. As the current OSX environment shows, it is completely possible to have both an App Store yet not discard your professional customers. I can tell my mother to only use the App Store and she is perfectly happy. Apple is removing control for a single reason only: money. They want their 30% of every sale on their devices. This is a good reason for them, but a bad reason for their customers.
- andrewflnr 14y ago
  Because we're consumers, and we want one. Do you really need another reason?
  - jpxxx 14y ago
    Yes. Not all consumers are alike, and adding even a single button for your file system idea will make it a worse product for 95% of the other customers.
    - andrewflnr 14y ago
      I don't believe that. Maybe I'm "still too young", but I believe that you can design a system that's friendly to both the "95%" and power users. It may be hard, but not impossible.
      - jpxxx 14y ago
        You need to explain what you mean by friendly filesystem. As it is, iOS is too complex for a majority of its users. For starters, they don't understand what a file is, they don't understand what a folder+directory is, they don't understand what metadata is, and they've never had to know what we understand as a filesystem for the last five years in order to use their phone effectively. You and I could figure out anything Apple offered instantly, and it wouldn't be difficult for them to program at all. But for the 95% of people who conceptually couldn't grasp what it's offering, it's another mysterious button on the screen that is taking them to a place they don't get. It adds to the cognitive load of the experience, adds to the UI, and makes them feel less 'with it' when their son or daughter tries to show them how to use the paperclip to attach multiple photos. They struggle with cut and paste, they struggle with how to search in Safari mobile (YES), they struggle with settings, and even things like multiple email accounts can get unmanageably complicated for them. Even if the filesystem implementation was utterly neutered and bumpered, it is still fundamentally not making iOS a better product for the great majority of those who would use it. I would strangle for a real filesystem, believe me, but Apple and the market have spoken on this.
  - j_baker 14y ago
tedunangst 14y ago
To play devil's advocate, if you allow the pros to do cool things, then the peons will see them doing that, and want to do it too. Why is your iPhone doing this cool thing that mine isn't? Then they try to manage their portable computer, and either dick it up or fail, but end up frustrated. Platform unity is a big deal, not just in the sense that there's only a few models of iPhone, but also in the sense that everybody's iPhone is equally awesome (or not).
- advocate1 14y ago
  What the "pros" use today is what the "peons", in one form or another, will use tomorrow. Apple has to run to stand still. They will continually have to make accomodations to address what the "free" computer users are doing. "Free" meaning not bound by Apple's rules. If a "pro" can get all his devices, not necessarily all made by Apple, to communicate with each other, and he can move data between them effortlessly, the "peons" are going to take notice.
- cluda01 14y ago
  What's interesting about this is the overall trend of flexibility in technology. In the few short years I have been alive (~27) the trend during the 90s and early 200s was a preference for infinite customization, and all the confusion that that engenders. In today's world we are now seeing the pendulum swing back in favor of less flexibility with the primary justification being that it makes for a more usable and intuitive interface. I wonder if the trend will reverse course and head back towards customization.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    Absolutely yes we will. This is tech we are talking about, it just yings and yangs endlessly.
- jwhitlark 14y ago
  "...if your society has no variation in productivity, it's probably not because everyone is Thomas Edison. It's probably because you have no Thomas Edisons." -- http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html The feeling that the top end was being crippled for the benefit of the unwashed masses was always my complaint about apple in the last few years. (Tongue in cheek).
Sunlis 14y ago
It's been a while since I've used an iPhone, but I seem to remember there were apps on the App Store that gave you (non-root) access to your files. Jailbreaking could, of course, get you root access.
msh 14y ago
Well thats more or less what xcode + a developer certificate gives you.

by tensor 14y ago

j_baker 14y ago

There should be an official supported way to obtain advanced access to your device. This seems like an awfully arbitrary statement. Why should there be an official way to get access to the filesystem?

tensor 14y ago
For all the same reasons that you can do so on OS X. I'm also lumping in the ability to side load apps here, among other features pros might need or want. I'm aware of all the arguments for their completely closed eco-system. But OSX itself is also a perfect example to counter them. Fundamentally, portable touch screen devices are still computers and are not actually so different that such a closed environment is needed.
- fjarlq 14y ago
  But to many people, the difference between OSX and iOS is large. I think this is one of the reasons why iOS has been so much more successful than OSX. The closed, curated environment is much easier to use for many people. A natural extension of this is a Mac that runs iOS, or making OSX more like iOS. I think this is happening, and it's being driven by what most people want. It may not be what I personally want, but fortunately there is more than one choice these days.
  - tensor 14y ago
    Unfortunately, for me there is really no good alternative to OSX. I require a unix environment for work, and yet also need word, photoshop, and other such applications. If I left OSX I'd be forced to run either Windows with a Linux VM, or Linux with a Windows VM. It would be clunky for sure. Also, I completely disagree that iOSs success is due to it being closed. As the current OSX environment shows, it is completely possible to have both an App Store yet not discard your professional customers. I can tell my mother to only use the App Store and she is perfectly happy. Apple is removing control for a single reason only: money. They want their 30% of every sale on their devices. This is a good reason for them, but a bad reason for their customers.
andrewflnr 14y ago
Because we're consumers, and we want one. Do you really need another reason?
- jpxxx 14y ago
  Yes. Not all consumers are alike, and adding even a single button for your file system idea will make it a worse product for 95% of the other customers.
  - andrewflnr 14y ago
    I don't believe that. Maybe I'm "still too young", but I believe that you can design a system that's friendly to both the "95%" and power users. It may be hard, but not impossible.
    - jpxxx 14y ago
      You need to explain what you mean by friendly filesystem. As it is, iOS is too complex for a majority of its users. For starters, they don't understand what a file is, they don't understand what a folder+directory is, they don't understand what metadata is, and they've never had to know what we understand as a filesystem for the last five years in order to use their phone effectively. You and I could figure out anything Apple offered instantly, and it wouldn't be difficult for them to program at all. But for the 95% of people who conceptually couldn't grasp what it's offering, it's another mysterious button on the screen that is taking them to a place they don't get. It adds to the cognitive load of the experience, adds to the UI, and makes them feel less 'with it' when their son or daughter tries to show them how to use the paperclip to attach multiple photos. They struggle with cut and paste, they struggle with how to search in Safari mobile (YES), they struggle with settings, and even things like multiple email accounts can get unmanageably complicated for them. Even if the filesystem implementation was utterly neutered and bumpered, it is still fundamentally not making iOS a better product for the great majority of those who would use it. I would strangle for a real filesystem, believe me, but Apple and the market have spoken on this.
- j_baker 14y ago

tedunangst 14y ago

To play devil's advocate, if you allow the pros to do cool things, then the peons will see them doing that, and want to do it too. Why is your iPhone doing this cool thing that mine isn't? Then they try to manage their portable computer, and either dick it up or fail, but end up frustrated. Platform unity is a big deal, not just in the sense that there's only a few models of iPhone, but also in the sense that everybody's iPhone is equally awesome (or not).

advocate1 14y ago
What the "pros" use today is what the "peons", in one form or another, will use tomorrow. Apple has to run to stand still. They will continually have to make accomodations to address what the "free" computer users are doing. "Free" meaning not bound by Apple's rules. If a "pro" can get all his devices, not necessarily all made by Apple, to communicate with each other, and he can move data between them effortlessly, the "peons" are going to take notice.
cluda01 14y ago
What's interesting about this is the overall trend of flexibility in technology. In the few short years I have been alive (~27) the trend during the 90s and early 200s was a preference for infinite customization, and all the confusion that that engenders. In today's world we are now seeing the pendulum swing back in favor of less flexibility with the primary justification being that it makes for a more usable and intuitive interface. I wonder if the trend will reverse course and head back towards customization.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  Absolutely yes we will. This is tech we are talking about, it just yings and yangs endlessly.
jwhitlark 14y ago
"...if your society has no variation in productivity, it's probably not because everyone is Thomas Edison. It's probably because you have no Thomas Edisons." -- http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html The feeling that the top end was being crippled for the benefit of the unwashed masses was always my complaint about apple in the last few years. (Tongue in cheek).

Sunlis 14y ago

It's been a while since I've used an iPhone, but I seem to remember there were apps on the App Store that gave you (non-root) access to your files. Jailbreaking could, of course, get you root access.

msh 14y ago

Well thats more or less what xcode + a developer certificate gives you.