5 ms·

There is definitive proof. They over-drive the LEDs which is why they die so quickly. If they were under-driven they last much much longer. It's the heat that k

There is definitive proof. They over-drive the LEDs which is why they die so quickly. If they were under-driven they last much much longer. It's the heat that kills them IIRC.

kube-system 2y ago
That design doesn't prove anything about any malicious intent to decrease the lifespan of the bulb, any more than it proves that they're optimizing lumens/dollar for the customers who want it.
- Dutchie987 2y ago
  They are optimizing dollars extracted per customer. Either that, or they are so incompetent designing electronics they shouldn't be allowed to.
  - kube-system 2y ago
    Unfortunately, electronics design does not operate outside the bounds of economics. Given a target retail price of ~$1.25/unit -- many of these bulbs are the best design possible. The existence of poor quality products does not indicate malice -- many buyers demand low end products. Cost/quality/performance is an engineering tradeoff without a "correct" answer. The answer is up to the opinion of the customer.
    - Dutchie987 2y ago
      I think that argument only holds when the customer is informed about those specific tradeoffs. The customer will choose the cheap bulbs because they can't be sure the expensive ones are better quality. They often aren't. Buyers want cheap bulbs, they don't want crap bulbs. If that means $1.25/unit is impossible, so be it.
      - kube-system 2y ago
        Or alternatively, the customer simply DGAF about the quality of their $1.25 purchase. I have $1.25 bulbs in my home. I use them in unimportant locations with infrequent use. They are perfectly serviceable for this use. > The customer will choose the cheap bulbs because they can't be sure the expensive ones are better quality. They often aren't. This is a big problem for all consumer products. The root of the problem is that most consumers are wholly unqualified to be a judge of engineering quality themselves, few even know how to effectively obtain trustworthy information about quality, and those who do often value their time more than the effort required to do so. For larger purchases, some people who care to be informed will do some research, but I don't really think there's a solution for products <$500.
        InSteady 2y ago
        It is so much more difficult than it used to be to get trustworthy information about the quality of products. Seems like you have to already know of a hobbyist turned youtuber/blogger who has ideally done deep dives into a class of products or at least some relevant product reviews (or has a large subscriber base with active discussion threads). Even trying to find such a content creator on the fly can be dicey since so many of them are doing paid reviews or at the very least are sent free products + incentives. That, or get lucky googling site:reddit.com/r/[subreddit] [product] to find a thread that isn't too recent, isn't overrun by shills and isn't woefully out of date and full of deleted/overwritten content.
        kube-system 2y ago
        The availability of that information is probably worse than ~10 years ago, but still better than any time in the past before that. Another problem is that there are just too many products these days. 40 years ago someone might have 5 options for a vacuum cleaner, period. Someone on the internet today might have 500 options. It's just information overload. Someone who really cares to, might go through the 236 options that Consumer Reports has tested [0] But most people aren't the type of people who would spend a half-hour arguing about consumer product quality on the internet. Most people aren't willing to spend any time to evaluate their options for relatively small purchases beyond the immediate moment of purchase. [0]: https://www.consumerreports.org/appliances/vacuum-cleaners/best-vacuums-of-the-year-a1212436704/ https://www.consumerreports.org/appliances/vacuum-cleaners/b... Good information for the quality of cheap consumer goods is hard to find because the information is not particularly valued by most people.
Am4TIfIsER0ppos 2y ago
WTF do you mean? All led lamps are PWM meaning they flicker meaning they are not at 100% over time.
- seventyone 2y ago
  https://blog.1000bulbs.com/home/current-underdriving-and-overdriving-for-leds https://blog.1000bulbs.com/home/current-underdriving-and-ove...
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 2y ago
    That barely answers anything. If you want more light make the pwm cycle on longer, even up to just driving it with the smoothest dc you can.

There is definitive proof. They over-drive the LEDs which is why they die so quickly. If they were under-driven they last much much longer. It's the heat that kills them IIRC.

kube-system 2y ago

That design doesn't prove anything about any malicious intent to decrease the lifespan of the bulb, any more than it proves that they're optimizing lumens/dollar for the customers who want it.

Dutchie987 2y ago
They are optimizing dollars extracted per customer. Either that, or they are so incompetent designing electronics they shouldn't be allowed to.
- kube-system 2y ago
  Unfortunately, electronics design does not operate outside the bounds of economics. Given a target retail price of ~$1.25/unit -- many of these bulbs are the best design possible. The existence of poor quality products does not indicate malice -- many buyers demand low end products. Cost/quality/performance is an engineering tradeoff without a "correct" answer. The answer is up to the opinion of the customer.
  - Dutchie987 2y ago
    I think that argument only holds when the customer is informed about those specific tradeoffs. The customer will choose the cheap bulbs because they can't be sure the expensive ones are better quality. They often aren't. Buyers want cheap bulbs, they don't want crap bulbs. If that means $1.25/unit is impossible, so be it.
    - kube-system 2y ago
      Or alternatively, the customer simply DGAF about the quality of their $1.25 purchase. I have $1.25 bulbs in my home. I use them in unimportant locations with infrequent use. They are perfectly serviceable for this use. > The customer will choose the cheap bulbs because they can't be sure the expensive ones are better quality. They often aren't. This is a big problem for all consumer products. The root of the problem is that most consumers are wholly unqualified to be a judge of engineering quality themselves, few even know how to effectively obtain trustworthy information about quality, and those who do often value their time more than the effort required to do so. For larger purchases, some people who care to be informed will do some research, but I don't really think there's a solution for products <$500.
      - InSteady 2y ago
        It is so much more difficult than it used to be to get trustworthy information about the quality of products. Seems like you have to already know of a hobbyist turned youtuber/blogger who has ideally done deep dives into a class of products or at least some relevant product reviews (or has a large subscriber base with active discussion threads). Even trying to find such a content creator on the fly can be dicey since so many of them are doing paid reviews or at the very least are sent free products + incentives. That, or get lucky googling site:reddit.com/r/[subreddit] [product] to find a thread that isn't too recent, isn't overrun by shills and isn't woefully out of date and full of deleted/overwritten content.
        kube-system 2y ago
        The availability of that information is probably worse than ~10 years ago, but still better than any time in the past before that. Another problem is that there are just too many products these days. 40 years ago someone might have 5 options for a vacuum cleaner, period. Someone on the internet today might have 500 options. It's just information overload. Someone who really cares to, might go through the 236 options that Consumer Reports has tested [0] But most people aren't the type of people who would spend a half-hour arguing about consumer product quality on the internet. Most people aren't willing to spend any time to evaluate their options for relatively small purchases beyond the immediate moment of purchase. [0]: https://www.consumerreports.org/appliances/vacuum-cleaners/best-vacuums-of-the-year-a1212436704/ https://www.consumerreports.org/appliances/vacuum-cleaners/b... Good information for the quality of cheap consumer goods is hard to find because the information is not particularly valued by most people.

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 2y ago

WTF do you mean? All led lamps are PWM meaning they flicker meaning they are not at 100% over time.

seventyone 2y ago
https://blog.1000bulbs.com/home/current-underdriving-and-overdriving-for-leds https://blog.1000bulbs.com/home/current-underdriving-and-ove...
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 2y ago
  That barely answers anything. If you want more light make the pwm cycle on longer, even up to just driving it with the smoothest dc you can.