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>This is obviously such a nonsense interpretation of epigenetic changes that it's hard to take anything in the article seriously. No one (including you) really

>This is obviously such a nonsense interpretation of epigenetic changes that it's hard to take anything in the article seriously. No one (including you) really knows the whole extent of epigenetic effects, so I would suggest you give it another read. We are still at (estimate) 10% known / 90% unknown in Biology. Source: Biologist for 20 years now.

ch4s3 2y ago
I read the article, the linked study, and two studies citing the linked study. The claim that memories or “lived experience” is inherited is not supported by the study.
BenFranklin100 2y ago
Erm…memories — by any biologically reasonable definition— are separate from epigenetic changes. No serious researcher would conflate the two, other than perhaps hippy-dippy ‘biologists’ who struggled through ‘Physics for Poets’, as undergrads. Source: Biophysicist for 30 years now.
- moralestapia 2y ago
  And yet ... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2248710/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2248710/ Btw, read the site guidelines. This is a place for discourse, not berating others.
  - ch4s3 2y ago
    Follow up work has not held up the 2008 article you shared[1], and has in fact shown that larvae do not carry over memories through metamorphosis. [1] https://www.quantamagazine.org/insect-brains-melt-and-rewire-during-metamorphosis-20230726/#:~:text=The%20reshuffling%20of%20neurons%20during,don't%20persist%20in%20adults https://www.quantamagazine.org/insect-brains-melt-and-rewire....
    - BenFranklin100 2y ago
      Further, even if the study had held up, there is a vast difference between memories retained through an individual metamorphosis event, and passing memories along to offspring resulting from sexual reproduction. The OP fails to recognize this obvious point.
      - ch4s3 2y ago
        Yes, I completely agree.
      - moralestapia 2y ago
        >The OP fails to recognize this obvious point. I don't. You're attacking a straw man. You wrote, >Erm…memories — by any biologically reasonable definition— are separate from epigenetic changes. I replied with a study showing the opposite to be true.
        BenFranklin100 2y ago
        No, I said, “There is a vast difference between memories retained through an individual metamorphosis event, and passing memories along to offspring resulting from sexual reproduction. The OP fails to recognize this obvious point.” You’re selectively quoting and then re-arranging the quotes to attempt to make yourself look better. Honestly, for someone to be posting this nonsense with a link to their LinkedIn professional profile in their bio is kind of career suicide. You’ve inadvertently stumbled into an argument on a IT tech website with people who are bona fide life scientists and are embarrassed and are clumsily trying to save face.
        moralestapia 2y ago
        My career is doing just fine, actually. Like, better than ever and I'm not making this up. Feel free to add me on LinkedIn, I have no issue in people knowing who I am; should I be scared or anything? Lol. You should try not being anonymous, just a suggestion, :). You said: "Memory [...] is separate from epigenetic changes" I replied with a study that seems to suggest otherwise. That's not really hard to follow ... >IT tech website Hmm naw man, Hacker News is way more than that. Also, why would I be embarrassed? You are just projecting too much unto others, chill.
  - BenFranklin100 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - dang 2y ago
      I'm late to this, but your comments in this thread broke the HN guidelines extremely badly, not just in this comment but also these others: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40720177 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40720177 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40713066 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40713066 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40713015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40713015 I'm not commenting on whether you're right or wrong about biology, obviously—I have no idea. But it's not ok to violate HN's rules like this, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. I appreciate that you've been a biophysicist for 30 years and we certainly want that people with that depth of expertise on HN, but even more important is that you not put down or ridicule others. I know that in the history of science and academia there has at times been a culture of hard-nosed ridicule of others who are deemed to be wrong and/or not knowledgeable enough to enter a discussion. Perhaps that approach is still vital in some professional circles, maybe? I don't know, but I can tell you for sure that on an open internet forum like HN, such an approach just poisons everything it touches. Incidentally, if you do happen to be right, that makes it even worse to post these sorts of attacks, because then you end up giving people a reason to discredit you which has nothing to do with the truth. Lots of past explanation about this if anyone cares: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=truth%20discredit%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor.... You've broken the site guidelines since then too, so this is unfortunately a pattern: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40744320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40744320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40739423 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40739423 If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
    - moralestapia 2y ago
      This is definitely over the line. cc @dang?
      - 2y ago

ch4s3 2y ago

I read the article, the linked study, and two studies citing the linked study. The claim that memories or “lived experience” is inherited is not supported by the study.

BenFranklin100 2y ago

Erm…memories — by any biologically reasonable definition— are separate from epigenetic changes. No serious researcher would conflate the two, other than perhaps hippy-dippy ‘biologists’ who struggled through ‘Physics for Poets’, as undergrads. Source: Biophysicist for 30 years now.

moralestapia 2y ago
And yet ... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2248710/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2248710/ Btw, read the site guidelines. This is a place for discourse, not berating others.
- ch4s3 2y ago
  Follow up work has not held up the 2008 article you shared[1], and has in fact shown that larvae do not carry over memories through metamorphosis. [1] https://www.quantamagazine.org/insect-brains-melt-and-rewire-during-metamorphosis-20230726/#:~:text=The%20reshuffling%20of%20neurons%20during,don't%20persist%20in%20adults https://www.quantamagazine.org/insect-brains-melt-and-rewire....
  - BenFranklin100 2y ago
    Further, even if the study had held up, there is a vast difference between memories retained through an individual metamorphosis event, and passing memories along to offspring resulting from sexual reproduction. The OP fails to recognize this obvious point.
    - ch4s3 2y ago
      Yes, I completely agree.
    - moralestapia 2y ago
      >The OP fails to recognize this obvious point. I don't. You're attacking a straw man. You wrote, >Erm…memories — by any biologically reasonable definition— are separate from epigenetic changes. I replied with a study showing the opposite to be true.
      - BenFranklin100 2y ago
        No, I said, “There is a vast difference between memories retained through an individual metamorphosis event, and passing memories along to offspring resulting from sexual reproduction. The OP fails to recognize this obvious point.” You’re selectively quoting and then re-arranging the quotes to attempt to make yourself look better. Honestly, for someone to be posting this nonsense with a link to their LinkedIn professional profile in their bio is kind of career suicide. You’ve inadvertently stumbled into an argument on a IT tech website with people who are bona fide life scientists and are embarrassed and are clumsily trying to save face.
        moralestapia 2y ago
        My career is doing just fine, actually. Like, better than ever and I'm not making this up. Feel free to add me on LinkedIn, I have no issue in people knowing who I am; should I be scared or anything? Lol. You should try not being anonymous, just a suggestion, :). You said: "Memory [...] is separate from epigenetic changes" I replied with a study that seems to suggest otherwise. That's not really hard to follow ... >IT tech website Hmm naw man, Hacker News is way more than that. Also, why would I be embarrassed? You are just projecting too much unto others, chill.
- BenFranklin100 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 2y ago
    I'm late to this, but your comments in this thread broke the HN guidelines extremely badly, not just in this comment but also these others: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40720177 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40720177 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40713066 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40713066 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40713015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40713015 I'm not commenting on whether you're right or wrong about biology, obviously—I have no idea. But it's not ok to violate HN's rules like this, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. I appreciate that you've been a biophysicist for 30 years and we certainly want that people with that depth of expertise on HN, but even more important is that you not put down or ridicule others. I know that in the history of science and academia there has at times been a culture of hard-nosed ridicule of others who are deemed to be wrong and/or not knowledgeable enough to enter a discussion. Perhaps that approach is still vital in some professional circles, maybe? I don't know, but I can tell you for sure that on an open internet forum like HN, such an approach just poisons everything it touches. Incidentally, if you do happen to be right, that makes it even worse to post these sorts of attacks, because then you end up giving people a reason to discredit you which has nothing to do with the truth. Lots of past explanation about this if anyone cares: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=truth%20discredit%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor.... You've broken the site guidelines since then too, so this is unfortunately a pattern: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40744320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40744320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40739423 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40739423 If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
  - moralestapia 2y ago
    This is definitely over the line. cc @dang?
    - 2y ago